Technical flywheel broken on 3 year old 4x4

[Herts Hillhopper]

Probably no help, but to those who have not yet suffered, part of the trick in preserving the dual mass flywheel (DMF) is to 'ease away gently' from a stand still, rather than dropping the clutch for a racing start. This doesn't mean driving like an old fart... just showing 'respect' to the mechanisms in the flywheel (and the gearbox too in passing)

Another cause of DMF stress is not changing down early enough as the car slows down, leading to extra engine judder, adding stress to the flywheel. For the diesel, that means keeping it at or above 'peak torque' which is at 1500 rpm. I think the TwinAir reaches peak torque at 1900 rpm, so best to not labour it below that as that will stress the DMF.

And, never sit with the car in gear, stationary, with the clutch held down. Put the handbrake on (also stops you dazzling the car behind with your brake lights), and the car in neutral. This prevents the flywheel overheating and preserves the clutch release bearing too.

The problem is, for those that don't know, that the flywheel is actually two parts able to move independently, with a set of springs keeping them together. Any judder in the engine - caused by the naturally 'rough' idle of the TwinAir or a diesel at low revs as you start to move off – is absorbed by the springs and leads to a smoother drive. Driving in ways that reduce the chance of that judder (such as going gently at low engine speeds, not demanding full power until the car has got going, and not 'labouring' the engine on hills) will protect the DMF.


See here for more info: https://haynes.com/en-gb/tips-tutorials/what-dual-mass-flywheel-and-what-does-it-do

 

[Al D]

From my experience with two 4x4's, Super Unleaded has helped torque in 2nd gear from 10 mph when keeping going at roundabouts, which has reduced a pronounced shudder on supermarket fuel. I've never pretended I have a 1.2 again.The 4x4 gearing on the TA means 4th to 6th are better used on A roads, carriageways and motorways.While the OP's car was Fiat Fleet, only now do dealers put a disclaimer on listings regarding fleet/multiple users.

If I was a driver for Paragon at Portbury for example and I thought "I'm having this car" I'd be incredibly sympathetic with it. If I was a lot younger and a bit of a loon I may not be. Maybe just a case of bad luck. My first TA 4x4 felt it's age and I was owner number 2. My current car at only 23 months old felt like new. If I have any issues, probably my own fault (you haven't seen me drive). No reason that it won't last 7 years or better, that's what modern cars are built for. Or in the case of Vauxhall, 3. Which is why I have fairly new cars nowadays.

 

[The Pretender]

I really don't understand how you can brake a flywheel.

 

[varesecrazy]

I really don't understand how you can brake a flywheel.

It NOT .. 'A FLYWHEEL'

.it is a 'Dual.Mass Flywheel Assembly'

Far from SOLID.. if the supporting structure lets the plate elements run independently.. you soon have exaggerated wear to all of the 'traditional' clutch to gearbox components.

 

[cala]

Dear Asa James,

I have exactly the same issue with my 0.9 Mito, the guide is chewed up by the plate, because of DMF's failure,,, as you can see in the pics. The workshop is advising to buy a used gearbox for about 600€, I am thinking of repairing the bellhousing, or maybe just leaving it as it is. Any suggestions? Thank you.

Did you get anywhere with this,as i have same problem as photo 1204 chewed up input shaft, replaced dmf and clutch ,all boxed back up , any advice appreciated

 

[Panda IIs]

Did you get anywhere with this,as i have same problem as photo 1204 chewed up input shaft, replaced dmf and clutch ,all boxed back up , any advice appreciated

Hi There, I can share my experience only.

My 63 plate TA 4x4 has just had its second DMF/clutch at 84k miles. The previous one at 48k ish and shortly after I purchased it. This second one may or may not reflect the fact that it had taught my daughter to drive and is mainly driven by my wife to and from work often with a lot of stop/start traffic - it is as they say "a wear item".

The latest was replaced by the Alfa/Fiat workshop who reported damage to input shaft to gearbox... See below and note the off-centeredness on the dmf and where the release bearing has been running! This is what does the damage to the input shaft I believe(?).

Having had a longish chat with Ben et al at the garage we made the "engineering decision" to replace the clutch/dmf and carry on as they say. All good thus far; it is possible that I caught the clutch fail before too much more damage occurred but I do wonder if this is the "bell housing" damage that is oft reported (maybe by garage folk with less experience)?

The job was in the order of £1.1k bellhousing not replaced.

 

[cala]

Hi There, I can share my experience only.

My 63 plate TA 4x4 has just had its second DMF/clutch at 84k miles. The previous one at 48k ish and shortly after I purchased it. This second one may or may not reflect the fact that it had taught my daughter to drive and is mainly driven by my wife to and from work often with a lot of stop/start traffic - it is as they say "a wear item".

The latest was replaced by the Alfa/Fiat workshop who reported damage to input shaft to gearbox... See below and note the off-centeredness on the dmf and where the release bearing has been running! This is what does the damage to the input shaft I believe(?).

Having had a longish chat with Ben et al at the garage we made the "engineering decision" to replace the clutch/dmf and carry on as they say. All good thus far; it is possible that I caught the clutch fail before too much more damage occurred but I do wonder if this is the "bell housing" damage that is oft reported (maybe by garage folk with less experience)?

The job was in the order of £1.1k bellhousing not replaced.

Hi Panda lls, thanks for info, i am of the opinion to "carry on" hoping i have caught it early enough, as said replaced dmf and clutch/bearing at local garage (£1044) , Have been quoted £700 to repair input shaft or £1650 for recon gearbox,, all getting very pricey,here,s the shaft

 

[Panda IIs]

Hi Panda lls, thanks for info, i am of the opinion to "carry on" hoping i have caught it early enough, as said replaced dmf and clutch/bearing at local garage (£1044) , Have been quoted £700 to repair input shaft or £1650 for recon gearbox,, all getting very pricey,here,s the shaftView attachment 444579

Snap! I call this weight reduction (all the rage in the automotive sector!). I just made sure they gave the bellhousing a good clean to remove that "grinding paste". Once I had seen the damage I was less concerned - the aluminium provides a sacrificial layer... Clearly if you ignore the fact that you can't change gear and let the plate start munching on the actual primary shaft then that changes things!

 

[cala]

Hi There, I can share my experience only.

My 63 plate TA 4x4 has just had its second DMF/clutch at 84k miles. The previous one at 48k ish and shortly after I purchased it. This second one may or may not reflect the fact that it had taught my daughter to drive and is mainly driven by my wife to and from work often with a lot of stop/start traffic - it is as they say "a wear item".

The latest was replaced by the Alfa/Fiat workshop who reported damage to input shaft to gearbox... See below and note the off-centeredness on the dmf and where the release bearing has been running! This is what does the damage to the input shaft I believe(?).

Having had a longish chat with Ben et al at the garage we made the "engineering decision" to replace the clutch/dmf and carry on as they say. All good thus far; it is possible that I caught the clutch fail before too much more damage occurred but I do wonder if this is the "bell housing" damage that is oft reported (maybe by garage folk with less experience)?

The job was in the order of £1.1k bellhousing not replaced.

Hi Panda lls, thanks for info, i am of the opinion to "carry on" hoping i have caught it early enough, as said replaced dmf and clutch/bearing at local garage (£1044) , Have been quoted £700 to repair input shaft or £1650 for recon gearbox,, all getting very pricey,here,s the shaft

Snap! I call this weight reduction (all the rage in the automotive sector!). I just made sure they gave the bellhousing a good clean to remove that "grinding paste". Once I had seen the damage I was less concerned - the aluminium provides a sacrificial layer... Clearly if you ignore the fact that you can't change gear and let the plate start munching on the actual primary shaft then that changes things!

Fingers

 

[Panda IIs]

Hi Panda lls, thanks for info, i am of the opinion to "carry on" hoping i have caught it early enough, as said replaced dmf and clutch/bearing at local garage (£1044) , Have been quoted £700 to repair input shaft or £1650 for recon gearbox,, all getting very pricey,here,s the shaft

Fingers

You'll be fine, just continue to enjoy the driving experience!

 

[Marcus Daly]

Isn't there some talk that DMFs fitted to later models are somewhat less fragile?

 

[Panda IIs]

Isn't there some talk that DMFs fitted to later models are somewhat less fragile?

I think I read something like that on here but I'd like to see the reference! It does become a bit of an overhead every 5 years in my case