Technical Fiat 500 Semi Gearbox Issues?

[SharonL]

Hi all, I've had my 500 for a year now, 2012 semi automatic with a little over 50k on the clock. I've been having issues with driving in automatic for a little while. Trouble selecting gear when starting, stalling at junctions and and if I have to stop on a hill. Juddering when pulling away at junctions. I have it booked in end of April at my local Fiat dealership (no other garage would touch it) But wondering if there's anything I can do myself to maybe resolve the problem

 

[SharonL]

Charlie, thanks for flagging this to me. I have no experience with the auto boxes and don't particularly want to get involved with one!

Having said that, Sharon, I'm in the Leith/Warriston area of Edinburgh - so near the docks. I do have a licenced copy of Multiecuscan although it's quite an old edition - works fine on our Panda (2010) and my boy's Punto (2012) but might have reduced coverage on newer cars.

Down here in Leith there's Harrison Motors in Leith - 74 Jane Street. Tel 0131 555 4443. https://bookmygarage.com/garage-detail/harrisonmotors/eh65hg/ They are a wee family garage with lots of FIAT experience. I think the owner worked for the local Alfa dealer some years ago before they closed down. Very helpful, I've been going there for my MOTs for some years now and they put a clutch in our Panda and one in my boy's Punto too and made a good job of it at a very reasonable price. We've have never had anything other than excellent service from them. The other independent is McLennans in Loanhead south of the city and near the bypass so maybe easier for you to find? they are at 1B Park Avenue: https://www.mclennansgarage.com/ and again, I'm pretty sure the owner is ex Fishers - The Alfa dealer. I don't know this garage from personal contact, although I've had a couple of very good quotes for clutch changes from them, but they are generally held to be another small garage which "knows" about Fiats. Both I'm sure, would be considerably cheaper than the main agent.

You'll all, forum members, no doubt, have noticed that I've just said I've got a copy of MES but you'll also know I haven't registered it on the forum register of MES holders. I feel the need to explain that that's not because I'm a miserable unhelpful old sod but rather that I'm so tied up with my own projects and looking after grandchildren to say nothing of my not to great health and now other stuff like sorting out my recently deceased brother's affairs that I don't want to disappoint by making promises I can't keep.

Hope the info is helpful Sharon? Good luck with sorting your 500. Although I have virtually no experience with these wee automatics there's a shed load of stuff about them "misbehaving" on the forum and your best plan might be to get your's moved on to someone else as soon as your circumstances allow. We've had Pandas with the manual box since my kids were learning to drive - they're all grown with families of their own now - the manuals are pretty reliable although some develop problems with the input shaft bearing at higher mileages or if abused. They're no worse than many other manufacturer's products though and cheaper than many for spare parts and cost of repairs if you can find a good wee garage like the one's I've mentioned above - unless you can do your own repairs in which case they're very cheap to keep going and spares, especially pattern made parts (but to manufacturer's original spec always) are generally as cheap as it gets.

Thank you! I'm from the poor side of Edinburgh -Fife haha. I've just

Do you know what his scanner is? We've found some of the rather cheaper scanners aren't very good at communicating with Fiats and don't actually display all the faults. Multiecuscan does seem to be the most reliable of the "affordable" options for home use. Also cheap scanners are nearly always OBD scanners so will only display emission related engine fault codes. MES is much more comprehensive.

Is the check engine light showing on the instrument cluster? If it is then there has to be a fault code logged. However even if the light is not illuminated, it doesn't mean there's nothing wrong.

Has the car always been like this since you've owned it? As your friend says, it could be a timing problem if it's not something to do with the transmission. If a new timing belt has been fitted recently then that's always worth a look as it's relatively easy to get the timing one tooth out. By the way, if a fault code is found relating to timing/missfiring always check the timing belt is timed up correctly as the ECU tends to display a missfire related code when it detects a mistimed belt.. Always worth checking before throwing ignition parts at it trying to solve a non existent missfire.

Good morning, I'm not sure what scanner he had to be honest. I never even thought to ask haha. The dash isn't showing any lights and it never came up with any error codes. I have a local recommended mechanic coming out on Wednesday to do diagnostics so I will wait and see what he says. I've only had the car just under a year. No issues at the start and they have been getting progressively worse recently.

 

[SharonL]

From your description of the symptoms it does actually sound like it could be the poor running engine, especially if
the idle speed is fluctuating (causes jumpy clutch take-up, stalling when trying to pull away gently and more),
problems with throttle control (causes lumpy gear changes, stalling, etc)
If it was mine, I would get the engine running as well as possible (check/replace plugs, check for air leaks around the inlet manifold, etc.).
Then see how well the gearbox works before deciding what to do next.
I ran Panda Dualogics for a few years, and noticed how much smooth engine running affected the operation of the gearbox.
Don't overlook the main earth cable, which can look OK, but can cause running problems. On the Dualogic, the gearbox end of the lead bolts to the Actuator.

Thanks so much for your reply. I have a mechanic coming to look at it next week, hopefully I can get to the bottom of it

 

[SharonL]

Chances are his scanner ONLY covered the engine,,
Not the Gearbox / clutch system

How far is Edinburgh from you?

I'm really not sure. I have a mechanic coming on Wednesday to do proper diagnostics so hopefully he can find out whats wrong. I'm about an hour away from Edinburgh, depending on traffic lol

 

[SharonL]

Okay so I had someone out this morning with a scanner, and it came up with this. He's done a few things and there appears to be a slight improvement. I'm going to take it out after work for a run and see how it goes. I have no idea what all this means, could any of you elaborate? Is my car done for? Thanks all

 

[varesecrazy]

What did they manage to "Adjust"?


Cleaning.. Checking electrical connections

Resetting things on the Laptop/Scanner maybe

 

[SharonL]

What did they manage to "Adjust"?


Cleaning.. Checking electrical connections

Resetting things on the Laptop/Scanner maybe

He said he adjusted a few things with the scanner. That was all really. It seems to be slightly better, but still not great. I'm at a loss now as I'm unsure what my next move should be

 

[jrkitching]

Thanks for the update.

I think this just confirms that there is some internal mechanical fault that isn't going to be fixed just by running some software. Perhaps something inside is gummed up & sticking, perhaps a seal is leaking, perhaps, well, perhaps just about anything could be wrong.

I don't have much to add from my post 5. The number of garages able and willing to strip the actuator to find out what's wrong can probably be counted on the fingers of one hand, and a franchised dealer is unlikely to offer you anything short of a complete replacement, which will cost several thousand pounds.

If I were advising someone with very strong mechanical engineering skills, I'd suggest the procedure described in this post could be worth a try, but I'd be reluctant to trust this to someone I wasn't very sure of.

If I were looking to achieve some sort of lasting repair, I'd be thinking in terms of stripping, cleaning and rebuilding the actuator (and possibly also the accumulator) with new seals, fitting a new clutch and running the calibration software; something someone with strong skills could do for a few hundred pounds, but likely beyond all but the most specialist of independent garages.

To try to put some sort of positive spin on this, if what's been done recently has improved things a little, this could be your opportunity to trade it in.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

To try to put some sort of positive spin on this, if what's been done recently has improved things a little, this could be your opportunity to trade it in.

The potential to relieve your piggy bank of a lot of money is considerable and I fear you may never successfully resolve this one. moving it on and taking the inevitable financial hit might just be the smart move.

 

[SharonL]

Thanks for the update.

I think this just confirms that there is some internal mechanical fault that isn't going to be fixed just by running some software. Perhaps something inside is gummed up & sticking, perhaps a seal is leaking, perhaps, well, perhaps just about anything could be wrong.

I don't have much to add from my post 5. The number of garages able and willing to strip the actuator to find out what's wrong can probably be counted on the fingers of one hand, and a franchised dealer is unlikely to offer you anything short of a complete replacement, which will cost several thousand pounds.

If I were advising someone with very strong mechanical engineering skills, I'd suggest the procedure described in this post could be worth a try, but I'd be reluctant to trust this to someone I wasn't very sure of.

If I were looking to achieve some sort of lasting repair, I'd be thinking in terms of stripping, cleaning and rebuilding the actuator (and possibly also the accumulator) with new seals, fitting a new clutch and running the calibration software; something someone with strong skills could do for a few hundred pounds, but likely beyond all but the most specialist of independent garages.

To try to put some sort of positive spin on this, if what's been done recently has improved things a little, this could be your opportunity to trade it in.

Thanks for all that. I think I'm just going to move it on and take the loss. Its just too big an issue to solve. Thanks for all your advice and input, it's much appreciated.

 

[SharonL]

The potential to relieve your piggy bank of a lot of money is considerable and I fear you may never successfully resolve this one. moving it on and taking the inevitable financial hit might just be the smart move.

Yeah, I know. Time to call it a day I think. Thanks for your input, it's much appreciated

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Yeah, I know. Time to call it a day I think. Thanks for your input, it's much appreciated

I feel I should offer you my condolences? I'm so sorry for the situation you find yourself in here. It's an absolute minefield buying a used car and even when you think you know quite a lot about them you can still get caught out. Automatics in general have always had a poor reputation for reliability when they get older and it's something I attempt to steer people away from if I can. I found it interesting, to read recently, that sales of new cars with automatic gearboxes are at quite an all time high and find myself wondering if it's because most electric and full hybrid cars are two pedal jobs?

 

[jrkitching]

I feel I should offer you my condolences? I'm so sorry for the situation you find yourself in here

I'll echo this. It's how I feel about it too.

 

[steveras57]

I'll echo this. It's how I feel about it too.

Agreed time to cut and run