Technical Engine Conversion From 1.5 to 2.0 Lancia

[Brae91]

Hi all

i have been told before on this forum that you can put a 2.0 DOHC Lancia Delta engine/gearbox in a X1/9.....i was wondering if you can put a 2.0 DOHC Lancia Beta engine/gearbox instead...is there any diffence?

Thanks for the help in advance

Brian

 

[Brae91]

i've been doing abit of research on the engine and it is a 1980 LANCIA BETA COUPE engine/gearbox...

would this be any good in a X1/9....it won't be used for racing....but used for car shows so i would like it to be quick...these car shows are usally Fast Car...

thanks for the help in advance

Brian

 

[jimbro1000]

The best example I know of this sort of thing lives in Israel and the owner is exceptionally reluctant to open the engine bay in front of a camera. He has spent a very significant amount of money on the car and it really packs a punch (but at nearly 1000bhp/tonne it ought to)

You can catch a glimpse of it here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4039536226454557146&q=ISRAEL'S+FASTEST (starting about 10 minutes in)

That is the very top end of what has been achieved with this kind of setup. Plenty of others have tacked it from the other end on a budget with good results but to be honest a good 1.5 drives so much better than a mediochre 2.0, not just in terms of handling but straightline performance as well. With this in mind this is roughly what you will need to do:

The engine bay itself does not need any significant surgery - it was originally specified to take the 2.0 engine anyway so space is not a problem. What you do have a problem with is the lower engine mount. In effect what you will need to do is fabricate a mounting frame for the engine - you used to be able to buy one thanks to some X1/9 specialists but those companies are long gone I'm afraid.

The upper (dogbone) engine mount will be too long so you will need to fabricate a shorter item along the same lines.

Apart from that it is pretty much plain sailing in terms of fitting - the usual caveats for fabrication of exhaust and aligning the gear linkage...

The biggest problem lies in the suspension, after fitting a twin cam the car is going to handle like a pig. The balance of the car will be significantly more to the rear and the rear dampers and springs were not spec'd to handle the extra load.

With that done you will need to get the engine breathing properly in order to make any headway on performance - the later 16v engine as fitted to the early Coupe models can give you about 150bhp but the old 8v will struggle to do the same - the Abarth version out of the Strada/Ritmo will only deliver 130bhp as standard, the Beta version will only deliver 110(ish).

Sadly getting the 16v version of the engine to fit is more complicated and most have settled for the 8v.

The gearbox you want is the Montecarlo/Scorpion version as the linkage is on the right side of the housing for fitting in a mid-engined car.

 

[Brae91]

Thanks jimbro

So you would put a newer 16v than a 8v one......i take it you will have more performance in the 16v if tuned?

The idea is i want to buy a 2.0 Strip it down and rebuild it from fresh....so i can put all new perfomance parts in...this will be done over a year!

is they a engine you could recemmond for me? E.g make of engine, year etc.

i found this engine at a scrapyard and the man tells me this "Complete 2.0 engine & gearbox mounted on the suspension subframe, it was taken out of a 79 or 80 lancia beta coupe, what was running at the time, it is also a carb"

I know this is a noobish question but can you tell if that is a 16v or a 8v from the picture?

Thanks

 

[Brae91]

sorry the other picture was small...here it is in a bigger size

 

[Brae91]

I did alittle research on it and i think it is a

1975-84

119 PS (117 hp/88 kW)
carburettor
would this be the 8v or 16v?

 

[jimbro1000]

That is definitely an 8v - the 16v didn't appear in the Beta. Aside from that the cam cover is somewhat different on the 16v's and the timing belt cover as well.

I wouldn't recommend trying to fit the 16v, desirable though it would be I think you would be making too much trouble for yourself.

I would opt for one of the Mk2 Strada Abarth twin carb engines simply because it forms a better starting point but you would need to find a Beta Montecarlo gearbox. Alternatively the Beta Montecarlo engine and gearbox together is an equally good starting point if you intend to do the rebuild and tuning.

Both use carburettors rather than fuel injection which, although a little less efficient, is definitely easier to get yourself up and running with.

If you can find a donor Mk1 Uno Turbo car then I would have to say it is an easier transplant (significantly so) but the turbo isn't to everyone's taste and you do have a lot more wiring to do to get it working (again not to everyone's taste).

If you want to save yourself some work you could try hunting around for a dead or dying Faran Eliminator conversion. Most of the bodywork on these cars will be rotten unless meticulously cared for but the engines and transmission tend to be good plus you can find all the mounting parts you need *and* the necessary suspension parts all in one go. They pop up occasionaly but very few were ever made and the enthusiasts behind them might be reluctant to see one go as a donor car for a different style of bodywork.

One last trick that is worth paying attention to - the Lancia engines tended to be inclined slightly while the Fiat ones are closer to upright. In the X1/9 the inclined version is desirable but all you really need to make it work is the sump and oil pump. It isn't essential but it makes the engine a little easier to work on in the engine bay.

 

[Brae91]

so if i could buy that cheap should i buy it? how fast can you get them to go? the main bit how much money would i have to spend to get it that fast?

the thing is i need to buy a engine before i spend the money on something else....i'm useless saving money lol

 

[jimbro1000]

If you are willing to do all the engine work first then the question of should you buy it is moot. The engine fits and works in an X1/9 but with all the caveats as previously stated.

How fast is a length of string question. With the 16v turbo engines or even the 8v turbo engines you can get seriously big power - 400 or 500bhp is not unheard of but it really costs. For a normally aspirated engine you would have to be looking at a realistic figure of about 150bhp and even that is going to be anything but cheap. You would spend the best part of £1000 just preparing the head (cams, gasflow work, valves, assembly and gaskets), add on the cost of a pair of new carburettors and another £500 has gone. All this before you've even put the engine in the car. An exhaust manifold will suck up another £300 at least unless you can find one ready made and on top of that you have to fabricate the rest of the exhaust.

The subframe for the engine could be fabricated from the original Beta subframe so not too expensive (perhaps). The gear linkage will be entertaining since the linkage is on the wrong side of the box (hence my suggestion to find a montecarlo - try getting in touch with the monte hospital as they might have just what you need - maybe even some of the other parts).

You need to put aside about £1000 for suspension. Springs are cheap enough but adjustable dampers are not and you need to find someone who can supply them in the first place. Standard dampers are not going to do the job as more than a degree of fine tuning would be needed.

 

[Brae91]

i know this is nothing to do with a Lancia but could you fit a Ford engine in a X1/9 as i was thinking all parts are mass produced so will be easy and cheap to buy?

Thanks

 

[Brae91]

sorry for double posting but i was thinking around the line of a

Duratec HE engine 1.8/2.0/2.3 (american version)

you can get 200BHP out of with ease.....i know quite alot of people use this engine in kitcars..

has anyone heard of this being done?

the only reason i am asking like i sed above...all parts are mass produced so it we be cheap to buy and also easy to find

Thanks

 

[Brae91]

Sorry for tripple posting

:idea:but i was thinking about a CosworthYB 2.0 16v Turbo

would that fit?

Thanks

 

[Chas Uno]

Any engine will fit if you have the time, money and skills/ resources. The advice you've already been given are your best options. A Uno Turbo lump will drop straight in but you will have issues with plumbing/ cooling and electrics to overcome. It should, if I remember correctly, bolt up to your existing gearbox removing the problems of addressing driveshafts and gear linkages.

The Fiat twin cam used to have kits available for the conversion into an X1/9. If you can find one that would be your best option for a larger engine and you will keep it all Fiat.

As soon as you start to look at engines from other manufacturers you will be looking at a complete custom installation. You will have to fabricate engine mounts, have custom bellhousings made if you want to use the Fiat gearbox or if you don't you will then have more problems with gear linkages, driveshafts, wiring, plumbing etc. etc.

Stick with the tried and tested conversions to save yourself hassle. To be honest, if you have to ask whether Ford Duratec or Cosworth Turbo engines will fit then you probably don't have the knowledge and skills to complete such a transplant. Only very experienced mechanics would even consider transplanting these engines into an X1/9 and would know they are looking at one off conversions. You will be on your own if you choose this route and won't have many people to offer your advice simply because there isn't any...

Good luck with the project though

 

[Brae91]

Well course i havn't got the knowledge for an engine conversion i am only 17......but i believe i can do it.....ford or lancia engine my car is being done up......it will end up prob with a lancia engine as i can get loads of advice form people.....

"To be honest, if you have to ask whether Ford Duratec or Cosworth Turbo engines will fit then you probably don't have the knowledge and skills to complete such a transplant."

Well why do you think i signed up on this forum?? i signed up to get advice for how to fix a X1/9.....i don't have the knowledge but i have abit of skill.....i just finished a automotive course at college and worked in a garage for around 3 years so i have abit of experience under my belt.

 

[Brae91]

Hey All

I have found A HF Integrale 8v 1987 Engine/Gearbox/Turbo

Was ran about 5 years ago but i put a spanner on crankshaft and she turns over no problem

how much would offer for the engine and gearbox?

and how much for the turbo?

I need this answered ASAP

Cheers for the help in advance

 

[jimbro1000]

Keeping in mind that being able to turn the crank over just means it hasn't seized up you should be looking to pay the bare minimum for the engine. Until you know it has good compression, good bearings, valve seating, lack of oil leaks, etc. you have to assume it is just junk. A similar assumption has to stand for the gearbox. Fixing the engine or gearbox up could get a bit expensive but not as much as the turbo. The turbo by itself could easily cost as much as the rest put together to put into full working order.

If the seller is insistent that it is all perfectly good then you need some warranty with it should it prove faulty. If the seller refuses to back down, just walk away unless you want to spend the money...

 

[Brae91]

well i offered him

Engine and Gearbox for £50
Turbo for £30

 

[ABZSTILO]

I have found A HF Integrale 8v 1987 Engine/Gearbox/Turbo

So did you get it for the money you offered Not a cheap engine to rebuild..... even in standard trim

 

[Brae91]

Hey

Sorry For The Late Reply, I Was Waiting For Him To Say.....

No I Didn't Get It.....He Said He Wanted £400 For It Even Tho It Hasn't Been Run For 5 Years!!

So I Am Still Looking For One.....If Any One Has Me Please PM

Thanks

 

[Brae91]

Hi all

Is a Lancia Volumex a good engine?

i never heard of one before and have found one on the web?

Cheers