Off Topic Electric Panda

Currently reading:
Off Topic Electric Panda

DaveMcT

Distinguished member
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
19,492
Points
3,295
Last night I watched the Wheeler Dealers episode on Quest where they took a 1985 Maserati bi-turbo and converted it to electric power with current (!) spec equipment. Very interesting but not low cost. Their car had already lost it's original (fragile) engine so they were not committing a terrible crime to classic cars.

Other than the cost, any thoughts on converting a 169 Fiat Panda?

The big one - How would you do the transmission on a FWD or even 4x4 Panda? They just bolted the electric motor to the clutch housing but that does seem a bit compromised.
 
Bolting a motor directly to the standard transmission is how you do these conversions, you then leave the car in a higher gear 3rd or 4th and drive around like that. Mount the batteries on top of the motor and make sure put in a vacuum pump to power things like the brakes.

The main problem would be the serious amount of torque these motors have so you might need a software fix to stop the motor tearing the transmission apart.
 
The basics of an electric car is you don’t need the gear box, because they have maximum torque from 0 rpm and will rev much higher than a petrol engine in some cases up to 16,000rpm, so you drive a manual like you would an automatic select an appropriate gear and leave it there, just using the throttle and brake, you don’t even need the clutch because when you don’t press the throttle the motor isn’t spinning.
 
What I mean is an auto would not be a good transmission to use because you want the car to stay in one gear, an auto might either keep trying to change gear as you accelerate when you don’t want it to, also the auto might not cope with the high rpm?

A manual is best and you can software limit the motor’s torque to not wreck the transmission.
 
There was an electric Panda, the Mk2 Panda in the 90's - driving a normal manual gearbox - The Elettra. In 1990 it cost 3 times the price of an entry model Panda - so price wise we haven't really progressed in almost 30 years :)

"The two-seat Panda Elettra, introduced in 1990, added an all-electric power-train to the line. Batteries replaced the rear seats and occupied some of the engine bay where the 19 bhp (14 kW) DC motor was also fitted, driving through the normal clutch and gearbox. This increased the weight of the car significantly, to 1,150 kg (2,535 lb) (450 kg (992 lb) more than the standard model), necessitating stiffer suspension and uprated brakes.[13] 1992 revisions to the Elettra saw the power increased to 23.8 bhp (17.7 kW)[7] and the weight reduced, though the Elettra remained significantly heavier than the standard Panda. This, and the steep price (25.600.000 lire in Italy, three times the price of the Panda 750 Young) made it a commercial failure. The Elettra was discontinued in 1998"
 
I think using the original transmission is just the easiest compromise. A far better option would be an independent rear axle type differential and scrap the Panda engine and gearbox.

Costs of course would be high, but perhaps not as bad as buying a new electric car.

Brakes needing vacuum for the servo and power for the aircon/heating would be delivered by a smaller motor. At least the steering is already electric. A diesel engine vac pump would sort the brakes.


Another solution would be to convert an old Citroen. One secondary motor would power the brakes, suspension and steering. Cabin heating/cooling would still be an issue - as it is with all lekky cars.
 
When converting a car to electric, rather than designing a model from new (which is what we are talking about) you have to work with what you’ve got.

Now the best most obvious way to do it would be to rip apart a fiat 500e which does already have bespoke systems in place for electric drive and would likely fit a panda, that said buying a 500e would cost several thousand dollars and you’d have to ship it to the U.K. from California.

To custom build your own drive train would be phenomenally expensive and require a lot of trial and error to get right.

So what all conversion companies do, and do so that it can be reversed back to a petrol engine in the future especially with classic cars like Porsche’s and VW vans and beetles, is bolt onto the transmission that is there, this is the easiest but also the far better option.

Given that the motors and electronics for a conversion can easily run to £5000 then having it fitted and all the other extra parts needed like batteries which will also cost thousands, there is a very good reason that people are not converting pandas or other every day cars.

Nothing is impossible but if you’re building an electric car anything that draws power can have a notable difference to your range, so you can buy electric car specific electric low power air con pumps, you can buy specific special vacuum pumps, you would benefit from switching all lights to low powered LED lighting and stripping out as much unneeded weight as possible, for example you won’t need as much sound proofing on an electric car.

Basically it depends on what you what from this, if you want a car at the end which would go head to head with a Nissan Leaf or similar in terms of range and quality of build, then you’re talking about custom building something from scratch with many bespoke parts and even having to introduce your own can system to manage it. The cost of this would be tens of thousands

Or you trash a 500e, ship it back, chop it up and use all the bits of that car, you’d probably need about £10,k for this option buying and shipping the car then doing the work, maybe far more if you’re having to pay someone to do this, there are no 500e specialists or experts in the U.K. and getting parts if needed would be a near impossible and expensive task.

The final and cheapest option would be to hack something together yourself from parts and your own engineering solutions. This would be a cheap and cheerful job but would still cost you upward of £7-8k with buying the motor, batteries, controllers and such, then some very interesting work on hacking the canbus system to still work for things like the dash, the body computer and aircon or climate control which uses inputs from the engine ecu normally, the abs the stability control on later cars, all interact with the engine ecu normally and so would now be confused to have a big hole in the system.
You could actually end up spending much more, or you could have to basically rewire the whole car to remove canbus an install your own computer to drive the dash and other controls.

The reasons this all works so much better on old cars like a classic beetle or Morris minor, is the complete lack of electronics making everything so much easier.
 
Last edited:
The Maserati done by Wheeler Dealers used the original gearbox and clutch. But as has been said, they only really needed a coupling to connect the main drive motor directly to the propshaft. It was a rear drive car. The only issue with that would be the mechanical speedo drive which came off the gearbox back end. It had regen braking but driveline backlash had to be an issue.

The battery packs were Tesla (presumably used). Charging and power control systems were specialist stuff but easily available in California. Who knows if they translate at reasonable costs to UK. Their 1980s car had no fancy body electronics. A Panda 169 would struggle at the first hurdle with body computer problems. ABS, air bags, seat belts, instruments and so-on would all be issues.

As I said before, a Citroen BX or CX would be a good choice for an equivalent job here in UK. Lots of space for batteries and the hydraulics would deal with battery weight. The obvious snags are body rot and the lack of safety kit we have on more modern cars.

Edit - Road tax would be an issue as there is no discount if you change to a "greener" power source.
 
Last edited:
The auxiliary a/c and sensor issues have been mentioned and you have to carefully choose your base car. Old and simple can work. Modern and complex wont work. If you really want an electric Audi A4, just get a Tesla twin motor and be done with it.

By the way, Lidl power tool batteries are cheap. Oh yes! (y)

Enough to deliver 50KWH would cost £18,000 plus charging kit. :eek:
 
Last edited:
Back
Top