Technical Ductato timing and running issues

[Matthew foote]

Hey guys.
New to the forum and this is my 1st post. Having issues with my father in laws 2000 Ducato 2.8 non turbo.
He brought it to me not running. No compression on 2 cylinders. I’ve pulled engine out replaced 2 pistons. Done all piston rings and valve stem seals. While doing this had issues getting parts. The machine shop that done the head said it was actually a 2.5 non turbo. I’ve used this machine shop for year and have very good trust in them Got all correct parts put engine back together. Then comes the next problem. While fitting the new timing belt (after getting the right one) no timing mark on outer crank pulley as auto data states. On inner pulley the dot that is meant to be at 6 o clock is more at 7/8 when timing pin is in gearbox. Also the fuel pump doesn’t seem to be pumping fuel to injectors. Are the pumps known for failing ?

 

[jackwhoo]

 

[jackwhoo]

Sounds like a whole load of trouble.

Don't crank it on starter until you know that it's timed correctly

The injector pumps are not known to be trouble some. Do you know how to bleed the air out?

 

[Matthew foote]

Sounds like a whole load of trouble.

Don't crank it on starter until you know that it's timed correctly

The injector pumps are not known to be trouble some. Do you know how to bleed the air out?

Thanks for the video. I always turn it over 2/4 times by hand before trying to start it. What is the correct way to bleed the air out?
Would you by any chance know which way the fuel lines on on by the fuel filter? They were off when I had the van

 

[jackwhoo]

Post a photo of the filter head and I will see if can assist with hose placement.

Is it a Bosch ve injection pump?

Is there an in tank pump?

 

[jackwhoo]

Did you find the engine number ?
If so what are the two numbers after the 8140. ? If it's on the block

 

[Matthew foote]

Post a photo of the filter head and I will see if can assist with hose placement.

Is it a Bosch ve injection pump?

Is there an in tank pump?

Not too sure if it’s a Bosch pump. And there’s no pump in the tank.
I’ll post a picture tomorrow. I’m not with the van at the moment

 

[Matthew foote]

Did you find the engine number ?
If so what are the two numbers after the 8140. ? If it's on the block

Where about on the block is the engine number.

 

[jackwhoo]

You may not feel lucky getting this task.....but I only found the above video today while thinking about someone else's issue...maybe your luck changing

 

[jackwhoo]

Where about on the block is the engine number.

I don't know off hand....look it up
Google sofim 8140 engine

 

[jackwhoo]

Cylinder Block 2,8 TDI Sofim 8140.43 Boxer Jumper Citroen Peugeot

Buy Cylinder Block 2,8 TDI Sofim 8140.43 Boxer Jumper Citroen Peugeot for 424.75 EUR. Product category: Complete diesel engines Citroen, Fiat, Iveco, Peugeot. Product condition: used.

eurofrance24.com

 

[jackwhoo]

Engine number below head gasket, bulkhead side of engine number 1 cylinder

Example in link above is 8140.43

 

[Matthew foote]

Engine number below head gasket, bulkhead side of engine number 1 cylinder

Example in link above is 8140.43

Hi.
Thanks for all the help and fast reply’s regarding this. Still had no luck getting it running.
Would you know how hard it is to fit the 2.8 jtd engine in with it being a non turbo. I’ve been offered a complete running van for really really cheap.
Just wondering if this would be the way forward and to just scrap the engine that’s in it
Thanks

 

[bugsymike]

If you have spent out on the 2.5 and it is almost at running stage I would persevere, but keep the option of the 2.8 as a back up assuming it isn't from a RWD such as a Iveco Daily as different bottom end etc.
If cam timing is correct including injector pump as mechanically timed and you have four good compressions then you are nearly there.
A photo of filter as suggested by @jackwhoo would help, also of the injector pump, early Sofim engines had a mechanical lift pump feeding the injector pump.
As a test if all else OK if the supply going to the injector pump was sat in a can of clean diesel the pump will suck it up and run for a short while only due to no return pipe.
I have had the Bosch pumps at around 200k miles running with no issues.
Once you have the 8140.** series number one of us can supply the correct timing details to check that side also.

 

[Communicator]

Hi.
Thanks for all the help and fast reply’s regarding this. Still had no luck getting it running.
Would you know how hard it is to fit the 2.8 jtd engine in with it being a non turbo. I’ve been offered a complete running van for really really cheap.
Just wondering if this would be the way forward and to just scrap the engine that’s in it
Thanks

Think hard and for a long time.
As you have hinted there would be exhaust connection issues to be resolved. As well as the engine, and perhaps gearbox, (Will the mountings match?) you would also have to change the engine wiring harness. If the van on offer is an x230 2.8jtd, then probably easier to connect up than an engine from an x244. Fiat seem to have dropped the 2.8jtd into the x230, and made alterations and adaptions as necessary. You could well end up with original and swapped harnesses that will not connect together.

Perhaps someone has done this, and it is easier than I am suggesting, but it could be heartbreaking.

To answer the engine type question, from Wikipedia we have Fiat 2.8D Sofim 8140.63 as an option in 2000 & 2001.

 

[bugsymike]

If you did decide to go that route, personally I would try and keep it non ECU, with earlier mechanical injectors and pump etc.
I appreciate there are pros and cons either way, but in the past I have found many 2.5 and 2.8 parts are interchangable and there is much to be said for not having all the problems of an ECU based setup. The reason I put the 122hp 2.8 turbo intercooled 1998 Fiat Ducato engine in my boat was apart from the cheap extra power I got from it, was the fact that on a sea boat, water and electronics are not ideal bed fellows, the idea of a dead engine because of something like crank sensor 10 miles out to sea with the weather changing didn't appeal.
However for the moment I would try and sort out what you have already.

 

[Communicator]

As suggested the 2.8idTD would be a less complex replacement than a 2.8jtd, I considered this, but it would be of a similar age to the exising engine, and possibly not easy for Matthew to find a good one, while he has a 2.8jtd on offer.

Overall I agree with Mike, and suggest not giving up on the time already spent.

 

[FreeSpirit]

Iveco 2.5 & 2.8 engine manual - I just uploaded to the Ducato Downloads section on the forum

 

[bugsymike]

That should be of great help for many with older Ducato.
One point I have mentioned before is that the main bearing carrier, sump , oil pick up etc . are different due to engine being mounted transverse and inclined on FWD Ducato, but on RWD Iveco Daily engine is vertical and mounted front to rear to connect to the back axle etc.
So don't think the engine out of an old Daily will fit straight in your Ducato.