triballofts
New member
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- Feb 26, 2015
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hi are Diesel pandas worth buying these days i have a petrol 2006 model and was thinking of a px on a newer model say 2009 2010
I'd stay stick with what you have .I have a Panda diesel and am getting increasingly concerned at the rate it goes through front radius arms and front tyres .This has to be offset against any savings on fuel .Of course the diesel has a nice bit of usable torque (as long as you keep actuator arm freed up , it's not on many of them ) But the petrol is more fun to redline and handles (way) better ...
DO the petroleum eat their front suspensions and tyres as well?I reckon my 160k diesel Panda is on its fourth set of front arms ,certainly it's had three -two new- in the sixty k miles I've put up .But it IS light on fuel and generally VERY reliable .
Sweet Sixteen.....tell us more about your exhaust system.....is it just the back box you've changed and who was the supplier? I guess my 2005 car will be a non DPF car? And regards your remapping , is that via a chip or proper remap (cost and where) and what is your BHP and do you sense the upped torque might impact the gearbox and clutch?Second Wee Smurf's comments.
Mine is a 2009, without dpf, and 'breathed on' with egr blanked, mapped, induction mod and a polycarbon/stainless back box - effectively a complete exhaust system without any baffles or restriction. For what it is, it goes like stink, and can be a 'lazy man's drive' if you want it - the wide flat torque spread means you need not bother the gearbox very often when making real progress if you're in that mood. The slight mods I've done have transformed the car.
I don't get the ultra-economy of some here, possibly because I enjoy the 'squirt' too often, but it averages low to mid 60's. If I really try on a long run I have seen 80mpg over a few hundred mile journey - but that's driving with eggs under my feet.
I also run 14" wheels with fatter tyres, and I haven't seen any unusual wear in front suspension, as mentioned above. It's a fun car and a bit of a'wolf in sheep's clothing', with useful economy thrown in.
I bought it for all-round economy (fuel, low wear rates, low road tax and insurance, etc) not expecting to like it much, but I now really enjoy driving it.
Sweet Sixteen.....tell us more about your exhaust system.....is it just the back box you've changed and who was the supplier? I guess my 2005 car will be a non DPF car? And regards your remapping , is that via a chip or proper remap (cost and where) and what is your BHP and do you sense the upped torque might impact the gearbox and clutch?
There has been some talk of Selective Catalytic Reduction on new diesel engines which we're told will help the issue and there have been calls for laws and/or incentives for owners of older (more polluting) vehicles to fit them.
The last I heard on the subject was Mercedes were considering pulling the plug on diesel engines on the whole of their van range and certain passenger vehicles if the new emission regs stood as is currently proposed.
"Give me old tech diesels any day".......but they ain't fabulous little DOHC, 16 valve , 1.3 litre turbo motors ! Seems to me that by tuning them in the way you have is to kind of "move them back in time" to a halfway house between old tech and "new tech" eliminating the EGR etc. Seems to me that's really sensible . I think that little Fiat 1.3 motor is capable of much more if it was properly balanced and worked on in other ways. In particular the exhaust manifold is very crude . I'm not sure how critical exhaust gas flow is on a turbo motor but always thought good gas flow was important for clean cylinder charging. I'm sure a tuning boffin could squeeze more out of them.......maybe 140bhp!Good thread, this, plenty of knowledgeable input.
Selective Catalytic Reduction technology has been around for years.
It goes by other names - DEF, and AdBlue for example.
Can't see how such a system could be retrofitted though.
AdBlue is basically sheep's pee! Or Urea. It is poured into a separate tank (on Mercs anyway) and gets shot into the exhaust system to deep-clean it all. Among many other manufacturers using Adblue technology, Mercedes reckon that this technology reduces NOx by about 90% if the figures are to be believed. In theory this does away with the NOx emissions problems with diesels, but of course it adds complexity to the engine and relies heavily on the ECU to keep it all running correctly.
Give me old tech diesels any day. If they ever stopped, it was always a fuel starvation problem which was usually easily fixed.
Mines a "sporting" 2005 in metallic black with 50k miles. ( I'd post a pic but I've forgotten how to and can't figure it out) . I spoke to Rover Ron who was very helpful. I'm in two minds about whether to go for his box and do the physical or electronic EGR delete or to go for a remap locally with a remap EGR delete. It'll cost me £120 extra if I go for the remap route but the wiring won't be mullered by my inexpert brain if I go for your electronic fix , or if I go for the mechanical EGR blanking plate I won't have to do the hassle dismantling at the back of the head to put it in. I figure £120 ain't so bad for an easy life!Yep - just the back box changed. No dpf on mine, so I now have straight-through from Cat. Here's a pic of the box i used, except mine is a single pipe by choice (don't like being too obvious).
View attachment 158569
They are made by Polyzhaust, out of a polymer with perforated stainless pipe running through. No baffles, and you can see daylight right through them. Nice burble without being too loud.
Here's the car
View attachment 158571
More or less bog standard externally except for 14" Punto wheels and 500 trims, smoothed and painted black in the centres. Like the low-key look.
And here's the tuning module:
View attachment 158570
They're unusual because they're made in small numbers by a guy I know called RoverRon. He started off tuning Rover V8's and will now make a box for almost any car. I've tried several other boxes and this one is way ahead. I had blanked off my egr at first, but then decided to try the delete mod instead. Lot of work but I enjoy messing.
Nothing outlandish on the car, and certainly nothing for show - but the results are great.
Yep - just the back box changed. No dpf on mine, so I now have straight-through from Cat. Here's a pic of the box i used, except mine is a single pipe by choice (don't like being too obvious).
View attachment 158569
They are made by Polyzhaust, out of a polymer with perforated stainless pipe running through. No baffles, and you can see daylight right through them. Nice burble without being too loud.
Here's the car
View attachment 158571
More or less bog standard externally except for 14" Punto wheels and 500 trims, smoothed and painted black in the centres. Like the low-key look.
And here's the tuning module:
View attachment 158570
They're unusual because they're made in small numbers by a guy I know called RoverRon. He started off tuning Rover V8's and will now make a box for almost any car. I've tried several other boxes and this one is way ahead. I had blanked off my egr at first, but then decided to try the delete mod instead. Lot of work but I enjoy messing.
Nothing outlandish on the car, and certainly nothing for show - but the results are great.
I'm going for the remap with an EGR delete within the remap. Mines developed a couple of minor glitches. Cold starting ain't good .. This is mine , 2005 Sporting. They came with 14" wheels.....and the body kit. Posting an image is driving me mad on this site.....anybody got any tips about what I'm doing wrong?!
Yep ...will do. I don't think it is the plugs because sometimes it starts willingly from cold and the plug icon doesn't stay on . I suspect it's contact fatigue in a sensor or the relay , or contacts to the relay, itself. I don't expect remap to fix faults. If I remember rightly resistance for a working heater plug is 1-2 ohms ? First job to day to measure them.How is a remap going to fix your faults ? Start by finding out which heater plugs are faulty first .. at least two by the sounds of it.
It's not just the economy....the whole package is knockout. Really well built, incredible road holding , plenty of headroom, upright seating position, great gear change......and that fabulous little motor ( with no DPF on earlier cars )! I've only had it 8 weeks but I suspect the glitches mentioned have been longstanding (along with a seized wastegate and clogged cat which are both now fixed). I suspect it's been in for heater plug changes , maybe even a new MAF but they've been unable to accurately diagnose what might be wrong. The problem with these highly tuned modern diesels is getting to the bottom of what might be wrong. Even trained up so called specialists can't often figure it out exactly from the fault codes I think. Maybe the fault codes don't give enough info. On the plus side when these motors are driven by grannies and the wastegate seizes and cat then clogs up.....the engines CANT get stressed so a misbehaving one can be a great buy for someone who has some insight . One crucial aspect of these cars is the tiny engine oil capacity and the huge 12k miles oil change recommendation for a revvy engine capable of big power output and torque . Mine only holds 2.5 litres which is a tiny amount and the filter is pretty small . And Fiat recommend only a B3 grade of oil which I think is not a grade for extended change intervals whereas B4 oils are......and B4 oils (and higher) will create less particulates and soot too. So a lesser grade of oil and overlong service intervals can compromise the longevity of the motors. So I reckon 5-6k oil changes are sensible . Another problem is the incorrectly assembled air cleaners which can allow water past the gaskets. I've fixed mine and it works fine now and safely but the alternative fix is as per Sweetsixteens cone filter. But fabulous "wolf in sheeps clothing"! Wonderful. I wonder what power they could produce when REALLY breathed on by a diesel tuning boffin.....with new cams , exhaust manifold etc. I reckon it could be nudging up to close to 190bhp. I wonder if anyone has really gone to town on these motors? Any ideas?Second that - glow plugs suspect. Easy enough to check using a multimeter.
The instant fuel consumption readout is a waste of space in my view. It will vary enormously with even a headwind, and really tells you nothing. The average mpg is much more valuable and sensible.
Sort the glitches first and clear the logged codes - this will give you a clear deck for upgrading.
Agree about the great economy. Terrific little cars!