Panda Dangerous steering problem

[306maxi]

So basically you don't know what a car does when the battery is weak or the ignition is turned off, but you're willing to tell me that I'm talking out of my butt.

Considering i was on the Stelvio pass at the time in the snow, died i guess?

To the OP, get your battery charged with a good quality smart charger and most likely it will be ok. The battery in my Panda wasn't all that healthy at the end of last winter and caused the EPS to be a bit funny as in not cutting in till a few seconds after pulling off. The car then refused to start shortly after, charged the battery up with a Ctek charger and it's been fine for 8 months now.

Who are you going to trust? Someone with practical experience, or someone who thinks they know how the EPS on the Panda works....

Flying Spaghetti Monster Man.

 

[Dev100]

Well at least you did it on a safe road.... Never been a crash on there has there.

Trusting someone with practical experience of what exactly?? Turning the ignition off whilst driving? It wouldn't simulate power steering failure.

I hate to point this out a third time to you but he said it had a suspension damage issue. This would have caused it to jerk side to side, the power steering failure would not.

Power steering failure would not cause the wheel to be moved unassisted, it would cause it to become heavy and unassisted. It is not robotic, it doesn't have artificial intelligence, it cannot move without your input. Therefore simply charging the battery would not make a blind bit of difference.

Why am I even wasting my time.... Not only do I know you are wrong I've spoken to four mechanics this morning who all laughed hysterically when I showed them this topic. Well done

 

[306maxi]

I never said it was a failure, in fact my point is that it might not be a failure......

The steering column has an ecu, therefore it does have artificial intelligence.

You're an ignorant know it all who is simply going off theory, theory which in some cases is very poorly thought out. There have been numerous people on this and the 500 forum who have had EPS "failures" and all that's been needed to rectify the issue is charging the battery.

I don't disagree that it could be a suspension issue, but it sounds more like an EPS issue. Cost of charging a battery is a few pennies, cost of a refurb steering column is hundreds.....

 

[306maxi]

P.S i spoke to 7 mechanics this morning and showed them this topic and they all cried.

 

[jrkitching]

Maxi & MEP are correct in their assertion that Dev100 is talking bulls**t. Both failing batteries and EPAS failure can cause the Panda's steering to behave unpredictably and erratically.

Faults in all forms of electrically assisted power controls can cause erratic and irregular uncommanded responses, and that includes undervoltage faults.

In the specific case of the Panda, both weak batteries and failing torque sensors can cause the steering to behave in an unpredictable fashion, exactly as described in this thread. The steering will not necessarily fail safe and simply lose all power assistance - intermittent, erratic and even uncommanded inputs are all possible, though in every case it should be possible by design for a person of normal strength to overcome these inputs manually.

That said, the forces required to regain proper control may be surprisingly high and if caught unawares could easily lead to a nasty accident.

 

[Dev100]

Maxi & MEP are correct in their assertion that Dev100 is talking bulls**t. Both failing batteries and EPAS failure can cause the Panda's steering to behave unpredictably and erratically.

Faults in all forms of electrically assisted power controls can cause erratic and irregular uncommanded responses, and that includes undervoltage faults.

In the specific case of the Panda, both weak batteries and failing torque sensors can cause the steering to behave in an unpredictable fashion, exactly as described in this thread. The steering will not necessarily fail safe and simply lose all power assistance - intermittent, erratic and even uncommanded inputs are all possible, though in every case it should be possible by design for a person of normal strength to overcome these inputs manually.

That said, the forces required to regain proper control may be surprisingly high and if caught unawares could easily lead to a nasty accident.

Of course it will put in uncommanded inputs.

Is it April 1st already?

 

[306maxi]

You do realise that there's an ecu involved...... The FACT of he matter is that this is what the car does when you turn the ignition off. It's a fact....

 

[Dev100]

So if I turn the ignition off the car will steer itself?

 

[306maxi]

If you're moving it will weave on the road as described by the op, yes.

 

[dandt87]

This is a bit confusing...so you're saying that if you turn the key to the Stop position(the one where you can remove the key) the car can start to zig-zag - i.e.steer itself - via the power assist? If this is the case, the steering wheel will also move and this was not described in the OP.
ESP might be able to do this without moving the steering wheel but if the key is in the Stop position, is the esp module getting any power?-i.e. is it an always on circuit?

 

[Dev100]

This is a bit confusing...so you're saying that if you turn the key to the Stop position(the one where you can remove the key) the car can start to zig-zag - i.e.steer itself - via the power assist? If this is the case, the steering wheel will also move and this was not described in the OP.
ESP might be able to do this without moving the steering wheel but if the key is in the Stop position, is the esp module getting any power?-i.e. is it an always on circuit?

Maybe we have all bought VW beetles? Herbie??

 

[306maxi]

It's not always on, but if the car loses power it stays on for a short while

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

This is a bit confusing...so you're saying that if you turn the key to the Stop position(the one where you can remove the key) the car can start to zig-zag - i.e.steer itself - via the power assist?

Not steer itself, it'll stop all assistance. If you're going dead straight at the time there will be no difference in where the car goes, if you've the steering slightly off center at the time, it'll pull central again unless you've a firm grip on the steering wheel to prevent it from doing this.

If driving with one hand, or without a tight grasp, the car will pull the steering central, if on a bend this will cause the car to start going straight rather than around the bend.

OP should have managed to stop this by holding on to the wheel though and steering the car rather than just allowing it to steer where it wanted to - this is what puzzles me.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

It's not always on, but if the car loses power it stays on for a short while

If the engine is switched off, but if the car physically looses power (IE loose battery collection as in my case) it'll fail instantly (along with everything else).

 

[Dev100]

Not steer itself, it'll stop all assistance. If you're going dead straight at the time there will be no difference in where the car goes, if you've the steering slightly off center at the time, it'll pull central again unless you've a firm grip on the steering wheel to prevent it from doing this.

If driving with one hand, or without a tight grasp, the car will pull the steering central, if on a bend this will cause the car to start going straight rather than around the bend.

OP should have managed to stop this by holding on to the wheel though and steering the car rather than just allowing it to steer where it wanted to - this is what puzzles me.

Ah you see that isn't what was said was it?

 

[Dev100]

Maxi & MEP are correct in their assertion that Dev100 is talking bulls**t. Both failing batteries and EPAS failure can cause the Panda's steering to behave unpredictably and erratically.

Faults in all forms of electrically assisted power controls can cause erratic and irregular uncommanded responses, and that includes undervoltage faults.

In the specific case of the Panda, both weak batteries and failing torque sensors can cause the steering to behave in an unpredictable fashion, exactly as described in this thread. The steering will not necessarily fail safe and simply lose all power assistance - intermittent, erratic and even uncommanded inputs are all possible, though in every case it should be possible by design for a person of normal strength to overcome these inputs manually.

That said, the forces required to regain proper control may be surprisingly high and if caught unawares could easily lead to a nasty accident.

I turned my engine off whilst moving this evening on a quiet industrial estate, in order to simulate what Maxi has been saying would happen, imagine my surprise when the wheel didn't jerk from side to side or react violently but just got a little heavier and naturally self centred.

If what you and Maxi and MEP say is true then this is a serious design flaw and all pandas are ticking time bombs and should be recalled and crushed!

 

[306maxi]

I turned my engine off whilst moving this evening on a quiet industrial estate, in order to simulate what Maxi has been saying would happen, imagine my surprise when the wheel didn't jerk from side to side or react violently but just got a little heavier and naturally self centred.

If what you and Maxi and MEP say is true then this is a serious design flaw and all pandas are ticking time bombs and should be recalled and crushed!

You really are a tool aren't you. I never said that the car was going to go from one side of the road to the other. Tell you what, if I'm not busy later on I'll go take a video.


I must apologise to the OP, we don't usually have such wilfully ignorant and obstructive people on here, but today is one of those days. Get your battery charged and your car will most likely be fine.

 

[Gavv8]

Can anyone say 'spurious no-win-no-fee evidence gathering'....?

 

[Andy Monty]

Must have seen this...




talk about sensationalist

 

[Demi]

You really are a tool aren't you. I never said that the car was going to go from one side of the road to the other. Tell you what, if I'm not busy later on I'll go take a video.


I must apologise to the OP, we don't usually have such wilfully ignorant and obstructive people on here, but today is one of those days. Get your battery charged and your car will most likely be fine.

Maxi ur a tool! And a massive one at that. I experienced ur attidute problem first hand. (btw these is a second "L" missing in willfully)

OP stated " I was driving along a straight stretch of dry ice-free road at about 50 mph, when the car started to zigzag. It went half way across the opposite carriage way, 3 times.

Maxi " If you turn the ignition off on the car while you moving it will do exactly this "

Maxi " I never said that the car was going to go from one side of the road to the other."

So first ur saying the its normal for the car to zig zag (which is going from side to side before u say anything) but then u change ur mind.

U must drive Herbie too.

Coz my 100hp never behaved in the manner described above when I had faulty fuel gauge and managed to run out of petrol on a motorway few times. First time it happened I tried to re start the car while rolling and had key out off ignition. The only think happened was that the steering became heavy and more centered. There was no hint of zig zaging.