Technical Crankshaft and camshaft timing marks !!!

[Nickles46]

Good day gentlemen , Hi from Cape Town , South Africa. I own the 2003 Fiat Doblo Cargo 1.9 D . Would just like to enquire where the crankshaft timing mark is as well as the camshaft timing mark ... to align them .
I have looked and searched for picture and diagrams but all i find is of Alfa's and later models Fiat Doblo's. Your assistance would be greatly appreciated in the matter.
If possible , pictures will be awesome , thanks

Regards
Nigel

 

[bugsymike]

Good day gentlemen , Hi from Cape Town , South Africa. I own the 2003 Fiat Doblo Cargo 1.9 D . Would just like to enquire where the crankshaft timing mark is as well as the camshaft timing mark ... to align them .
I have looked and searched for picture and diagrams but all i find is of Alfa's and later models Fiat Doblo's. Your assistance would be greatly appreciated in the matter.
If possible , pictures will be awesome , thanks

Regards
Nigel

Is this your engine Series Number?
Note all pages.

 

[Nickles46]

Is this your engine Series Number?
Note all pages.

Bugsymike ... Yes mate , that is my series number ...Thanks a million for the help. Much appreciated. Need to get me a book like that. Will keep you posted on progress.

 

[Nickles46]

Is this your engine Series Number?
Note all pages.

Hey there Bugsymike , hope all is well with you. I have followed the diagram you sent me and managed to set up the timing marks accordingly. I have also fitted a "new" pump from a similar Doblo ... I have also changed the crank sensor . All she does is swing but refuses to fire up. Is it important that the pump must also be timed correctly ? I am stumped at this point ... I managed to get my hands on a 2005 Fiat Doblo 1.9 D for 170 pounds ... Yes ... You read correctly ... A non runner due to a missing crank pulley and bolt . Guy gave up on the van and i found it luckily. Are there any diagnostic calibrations needed when swopping pumps from another similar Doblo ? What am i missing here ???? Thanks in advance for the help and advice .... I refuse to give up on this van.

 

[bugsymike]

Hey there Bugsymike , hope all is well with you. I have followed the diagram you sent me and managed to set up the timing marks accordingly. I have also fitted a "new" pump from a similar Doblo ... I have also changed the crank sensor . All she does is swing but refuses to fire up. Is it important that the pump must also be timed correctly ? I am stumped at this point ... I managed to get my hands on a 2005 Fiat Doblo 1.9 D for 170 pounds ... Yes ... You read correctly ... A non runner due to a missing crank pulley and bolt . Guy gave up on the van and i found it luckily. Are there any diagnostic calibrations needed when swopping pumps from another similar Doblo ? What am i missing here ???? Thanks in advance for the help and advice .... I refuse to give up on this van.

As you may see the injector pump (IP) in photo timed to mark, this is on the older engines, the later JTD type are "common rail" so diesel pump is just high pressure diesel with a single pipe to the Common Rail to supply the electronic ECU controlled injectors.
So basically if injectors have wires to them then pump does not need timing, but crank sensor needs to work to tell the ECU when to fire the injectors.
So earlier pumps with four pipes going to injectors need timing as the book, but later common rail type are electronically timed via Crank Position Sensor and ECU.
So assuming you have four good compressions from the engine , then you need the fuel at the injectors.
So if no wires to injectors , undo a injector pipe nut and you need to see fuel dripping out. Do not put your finger on it as it can be extremely high pressure and send you to hospital!!!
I like the purchase price.
.

 

[Nickles46]

As you may see the injector pump (IP) in photo timed to mark, this is on the older engines, the later JTD type are "common rail" so diesel pump is just high pressure diesel with a single pipe to the Common Rail to supply the electronic ECU controlled injectors.
So basically if injectors have wires to them then pump does not need timing, but crank sensor needs to work to tell the ECU when to fire the injectors.
So earlier pumps with four pipes going to injectors need timing as the book, but later common rail type are electronically timed via Crank Position Sensor and ECU.
So assuming you have four good compressions from the engine , then you need the fuel at the injectors.
So if no wires to injectors , undo a injector pipe nut and you need to see fuel dripping out. Do not put your finger on it as it can be extremely high pressure and send you to hospital!!!
I like the purchase price.
.

First of all , thanks for the prompt response although we are on different continents . I have the older version injection system . I have undone one of the nuts at the injector and cranked the engine ...no fuel were squirting out. I have checked on Delphi R8640A121A pump on the inlet and outlet and it seems to be getting diesel ... ! Does it mean this pump needs calibration ? I have eventually loosened all 4 nuts and cranked it but there is just no diesel squirting ....!!! I will reverts back to timing diagram in the IP !! Once again , many thanks

 

[bugsymike]

First of all , thanks for the prompt response although we are on different continents . I have the older version injection system . I have undone one of the nuts at the injector and cranked the engine ...no fuel were squirting out. I have checked on Delphi R8640A121A pump on the inlet and outlet and it seems to be getting diesel ... ! Does it mean this pump needs calibration ? I have eventually loosened all 4 nuts and cranked it but there is just no diesel squirting ....!!! I will reverts back to timing diagram in the IP !! Once again , many thanks

Check all the timing marks are correct first.
If you have fuel getting to the pump that is good, now I see that the one I looked up has a "immobiliser" fitted , if yours has the same, when you turn the ignition on does that immobiliser light go out on the dashboard using all keys you have before actually cranking the engine over.
If light doesn't go out engine will not start whatever you do.
I recall you mentioned trying a different injector pump, the pump must match the original car /ECU/immobiliser and ignition keys or it will not work.
In which case you would have to find a way to disable that immobiliser!

 

[Nickles46]

Check all the timing marks are correct first.
If you have fuel getting to the pump that is good, now I see that the one I looked up has a "immobiliser" fitted , if yours has the same, when you turn the ignition on does that immobiliser light go out on the dashboard using all keys you have before actually cranking the engine over.
If light doesn't go out engine will not start whatever you do.
I recall you mentioned trying a different injector pump, the pump must match the original car /ECU/immobiliser and ignition keys or it will not work.
In which case you would have to find a way to disable that immobiliser!

Thanks for the feedback mate ... The immobilizer does go out when i turn on the ignition . My van is the 2003 Fiat Doblo Cargo 1.9 D non turbo. I have attached pics of the pump timing as per your illustrations you sent me. Is that correct for this model vehicle ? Or should i look at turning the IP pulley back to another mark i saw on that plate. I have included a picture of where my current IP timing is . Should it be on the other mark.

 

[bugsymike]

Thanks for the feedback mate ... The immobilizer does go out when i turn on the ignition . My van is the 2003 Fiat Doblo Cargo 1.9 D non turbo. I have attached pics of the pump timing as per your illustrations you sent me. Is that correct for this model vehicle ? Or should i look at turning the IP pulley back to another mark i saw on that plate. I have included a picture of where my current IP timing is . Should it be on the other mark.

Good that the immobiliser light goes out, I an surprised no fuel getting through as even if injection timing wrong there should be fuel coming out.
I can't remember if there are any other bleeders to get air out of the pump, but generally if you slacken the highest pipe leading to injectors on the pump and crank engine over until fuel leaks out of that union nut, then tighten it and spin engine over with the injector pipe nuts slackened, then as it is being spun over as you see fuel coming out nip up the nuts and engine should fire up.
Re the injector pump timing marks, normally I would trust the details in my manual that you have the photo of as long as it is the same engine Series No. as yours. (they cost £100 per year approx. back in 2012 for the petrol and diesel versions!)
If you have good compression and fuel coming out at the current timing marks but it isn't running , then I would go to my photos and reset to those marks.
However whatever you do re cambelt timing , after everything is correctly set and tight, always turn engine by hand at least two full revolutions to ensure no metal to metal contact inside engine, before turning ignition key, that way even if engine doesn't start , at least you won't break anything!!!

 

[Nickles46]

Good that the immobiliser light goes out, I an surprised no fuel getting through as even if injection timing wrong there should be fuel coming out.
I can't remember if there are any other bleeders to get air out of the pump, but generally if you slacken the highest pipe leading to injectors on the pump and crank engine over until fuel leaks out of that union nut, then tighten it and spin engine over with the injector pipe nuts slackened, then as it is being spun over as you see fuel coming out nip up the nuts and engine should fire up.
Re the injector pump timing marks, normally I would trust the details in my manual that you have the photo of as long as it is the same engine Series No. as yours. (they cost £100 per year approx. back in 2012 for the petrol and diesel versions!)
If you have good compression and fuel coming out at the current timing marks but it isn't running , then I would go to my photos and reset to those marks.
However whatever you do re cambelt timing , after everything is correctly set and tight, always turn engine by hand at least two full revolutions to ensure no metal to metal contact inside engine, before turning ignition key, that way even if engine doesn't start , at least you won't break a

 

[Nickles46]

Dear Bugsymike

I turned back the IP mark to the way its illustrated in your pages ... Turned the engine over a few times to see if anything will knock or lock up ... Was smooth .... I then turned on the ignition key ....waited a few second ... My baby girl FIRED up instantly ... There was a few coughs and splutters but she is purring like a kitten . Mate , tons of gratitude . You're a superstar for sharing your knowledge and input .
Cheers , Nigel

 

[Nickles46]

Dear Bugsymike

I turned back the IP mark to the way its illustrated in your pages ... Turned the engine over a few times to see if anything will knock or lock up ... Was smooth .... I then turned on the ignition key ....waited a few second ... My baby girl FIRED up instantly ... There was a few coughs and splutters but she is purring like a kitten . Mate , tons of gratitude . You're a superstar for sharing your knowledge and input .
Cheers , Nigel

Good morning Bugsymike .... Hope you are well ... Took my Doblo for a testdrive this morning ...Upon my return home she started hunting , idling irregular , blowing out white/blue smoke and wreaking of unburnt diesel. She pulls like the clappers , what can this be ? She was standing for more then 3 weeks , and i filled her with clean fuel . On another note , where can i order that Doblo manual you have ... maybe a link .

 

[The Panda Nut]

Hunting maybe due to air being sucked in on the supply line. Check filter tightness and bleed it if it has a bleed valve fitted it may halp.

 

[bugsymike]

Good morning Bugsymike .... Hope you are well ... Took my Doblo for a testdrive this morning ...Upon my return home she started hunting , idling irregular , blowing out white/blue smoke and wreaking of unburnt diesel. She pulls like the clappers , what can this be ? She was standing for more then 3 weeks , and i filled her with clean fuel . On another note , where can i order that Doblo manual you have ... maybe a link .

Happy for you getting Doblo running, re the poor running, check as @The Panda Nut mentions and see if anything obvious you have disturbed.
It may be worth checking the EGR valve as they can cause problems. They can be blanked on the older ones with no error code lights coming on, but later ones it may cause a problem.
Of course as you bought the vehicle cheap it may be there are other issues not mentioned by the previous owner.
Re the manual, you are not the first to ask, basically it is part of a trade publication and those two pages are all that is relevant to your Doblo as it deals with many makes and models, they also did Technical Service Data Manuals as well which are very useful,. However since around 2012 they went online which meant a yearly subscription which was a lot more expensive but gave even more detail, though unfortunately "time expired" so once you stopped paying you could not access previous years details, which is why I preferred the manuals.
They do occasionally come up, on eBay and may be seen at Auto Jumbles if very lucky!

 

[Nickles46]

Hunting maybe due to air being sucked in on the supply line. Check filter tightness and bleed it if it has a bleed valve fitted it may halp.

Thanks Mate ....will do a proper check for air leaks.

 

[Nickles46]

Happy for you getting Doblo running, re the poor running, check as @The Panda Nut mentions and see if anything obvious you have disturbed.
It may be worth checking the EGR valve as they can cause problems. They can be blanked on the older ones with no error code lights coming on, but later ones it may cause a problem.
Of course as you bought the vehicle cheap it may be there are other issues not mentioned by the previous owner.
Re the manual, you are not the first to ask, basically it is part of a trade publication and those two pages are all that is relevant to your Doblo as it deals with many makes and models, they also did Technical Service Data Manuals as well which are very useful,. However since around 2012 they went online which meant a yearly subscription which was a lot more expensive but gave even more detail, though unfortunately "time expired" so once you stopped paying you could not access previous years details, which is why I preferred the manuals.
They do occasionally come up, on eBay and may be seen at Auto Jumbles if very lucky!

Hey Bugsymike
Thanks again for the response . Will do a thorough air leak check as well as check out the links /sources for the manual.