General Building a Fiat 500 bodyshell from scratch

[Toshi 975]

Some might have seen the Facebook listings for a Red Gamine for sale in Bournmouth at a bit over £20,000. At the weekend there were two more listings for the same car, they did not even bother to hide the reg no, this time for £7,000 in different parts of the UK. Such obvious scams so I reported it to Facebook and they got back to me today to say there was nothing wrong
I assume that it was all computer generated.

 

[fiat500]

As this discussion broadens out I was recently alerted to rather worrying and annoying trends on the internet. A growing number of individuals setting themselves up as online experts making YouTube videos with a limited knowledge of the subject matter to the point that I think some of the advice given misses important points or can be downright dangerous. The annoying bit is that some of the content looks to be directly cribbed from forums such as this where members freely give advice passing on knowledge & experiences with the best of intentions.
A much younger and more internet savvy mate explained to me that these guys ask people to subscribe to them and follow them hoping that they will get enough followers that makes their content attractive to advertisers that will generate an income.

I've noticed the same, and many of these experts have very poor technique, especially when it somes to structural welding, where you usually only see everything after the poor technique has been polished up with a grinder.

There is a channel of "professional" Italian Fiat 500 restoration specialists who have even managed to get sponsored by the respected Axel Gerstl, who slice bodyshells apart and fit new panels in an almost agricultural way. The welding is sufficiently robust that I'm sure that the results are structurally sound, but as for the alignments and final contours of the bodywork...I'm not so sure.

 

[bugsymike]

I've noticed the same, and many of these experts have very poor technique, especially when it somes to structural welding, where you usually only see everything after the poor technique has been polished up with a grinder.

There is a channel of "professional" Italian Fiat 500 restoration specialists who have even managed to get sponsored by the respected Axel Gerstl, who slice bodyshells apart and fit new panels in an almost agricultural way. The welding is sufficiently robust that I'm sure that the results are structurally sound, but as for the alignments and final contours of the bodywork...I'm not so sure.

"Cut & Shut" accident repairs were quite common in the early 70s, I am sure many were done professionally to a high standard, but enough were reported in the press to cause an outrage.
What I think is wrong is where insurance companies "write off" potentially future classic older cars simply for a dent in a wing or door that due to repair costs are more than the current insurance "guide" on it's value.

 

[Bigvtwin996]

"the "cloned" "SOS" 500" you can't go round saying things like that.....
heaven forbit you may even mention.... https://www.andysaunders.net/fiat-500/
(I can't see a single component from 1958, and that glove box certainly looks Post 65)
but I guess being a well know celebrity type they are allowed to get away with anything

I have often said I think that a car that has as much of the original metal retained and only the corroded bit cut out and skillfully fettled in is a much more worthy restoration, as is rebuilding and original engine and gearbox, blasting and paintig suspension components rather than the simply replace everything with exchange or repro and, off with the wings because the arch has rusted... I can understand the cost element for example rechroming original bumpers would cost 3-4 times new repros... and with current labor charges often over £70+ per hour replacing a wing is cheaper than repairing it....

 

[fiat500]

"the "cloned" "SOS" 500" you can't go round saying things like that.....
heaven forbit you may even mention.... https://www.andysaunders.net/fiat-500/
(I can't see a single component from 1958, and that glove box certainly looks Post 65)
but I guess being a well know celebrity type they are allowed to get away with anything

I have often said I think that a car that has as much of the original metal retained and only the corroded bit cut out and skillfully fettled in is a much more worthy restoration, as is rebuilding and original engine and gearbox, blasting and paintig suspension components rather than the simply replace everything with exchange or repro and, off with the wings because the arch has rusted... I can understand the cost element for example rechroming original bumpers would cost 3-4 times new repros... and with current labor charges often over £70+ per hour replacing a wing is cheaper than repairing it....

......not just more worthy, also (arguably) stronger, unarguably better aligned, and despite scare-stories, retaining better steel. (head ducking moment?)

 

[fiat500]

"Cut & Shut" accident repairs were quite common in the early 70s, I am sure many were done professionally to a high standard, but enough were reported in the press to cause an outrage.
What I think is wrong is where insurance companies "write off" potentially future classic older cars simply for a dent in a wing or door that due to repair costs are more than the current insurance "guide" on it's value.

There is an example of a "cut and shut" car in the Riverside Museum (Glasgow transport museum). It's meant to highlight the dangers of that "sinister" trade. But all it showed me was the ingenuity and skill of an anonymous 1980's welder. Some of the welding wasn't pretty...it often isn't whoever you are, but it didn't look like a deathtrap, even with all the seams and joins revealed.

Having said all that...I would want my money back.

 

[Bigvtwin996]

I think if you look at some of the major resorations found online there in no shouting "unsafe, cut and shut or deathtrap".. a friend who is a highly skilled welder (go over many bridges in the midlands (road or rail) and your life was in his hands) restored a toyota Hilux.... there was no repair panels for the chassis, the metal was so thick even his press could not bend the shapes, so lobster welded panels to create intricate curves an such... few flap disks later looked perfect... some may argue i would not be as strong as one peice of steel bent to shape....
Well you should see how they have to repair 1" steel in old bridges....

 

[bugsymike]

Going back to the car programs, I only have to watch the "expert" wield a spanner to make my opinion. If they can't use an open ended spanner the right way round when tightening a bolt, the way I was taught at College over fifty years ago, then I wouldn't let them near my tool box!

 

[Bigvtwin996]

back to the Gammie Facebook listing there are 000s of scam listings on Ebay Facebook etc "Granny Mawmaw" selling over £750.000 woth of cars and vans at less than guide price, but when you report them Facebooks AI Bot looks at the listing and checks the rules for content and sees nothng wrong, hence why they are not taken down... At least Ebay still have people it may take a few reports of the same user account but they get there, I told a company their website had been cloned and used on Ebay, they said they reported it but Ebay says it takes at least 24hours to take down the listings..
Facebook are virtually uncontactanble (note virtually you can find their uk office if you look hard enough)

I think we can all look at such sites and see the fakes/scams but AI is the future so they all say...
Like Phone apps etc, something I have no need for, I was called a dinosaur because I didn't use whatsapp or some other app. and I replied. "everything you can do with your phone I can do without, but if you loose your phone your life stops, I just continue as normal..."