Technical Brakes again...

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Technical Brakes again...

That must be the 312 or 100HP?? The good old 169 has no such luxuries the pads are just hanging in the caliper bracket. The really annoying thing is I can see absolutely nothing to cause this rusting issue. The slider pins do have a rubber collar sleve. My suspicion is that the rubber goes soft and allows the caliper to flex and this then causes the brakes to effectively stick. When you check it all out with no load it would all work just fine, as indeed it does
There's more than one type of calliper fitted so some might be different

when you refit the bottom pin you have to push it against the spring

I have had three pandas they have all been like this so very common

Not my photo, the spring is filling the hole in the centre


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Interesting discussion this. I'm thinking there are many brands of brake parts, especially when you start looking at aftermarket parts. Premium names like Girling, Brembo, Lockheed, etc. which often command a small premium in price and then Apec, EBC, Mintex, Bosch, ATE, etc, etc. which are more likely what I'll be buying. I bet they pretty much all make parts for our FIATs? Years ago I found local trade factors sell me stuff from trusted brands at prices which rival those on the internet so, for many years now, I've tended to buy from them. Now and again I'll check on line, but there's seldom any real advantage. Only very seldom do I have problems with wrongly supplied parts and it's very easy to pop back and get them changed if this does happen. Where there's difficulty in identifying a part I just take the old one with me and a bit of paper with the vehicle reg no and VIN.

I'm not aware of any difference in friction material for ABS systems as against in a non ABS but I've sometimes found two identical pad recommendations except that one has a wear warning wire whereas the other may not. The set without the wire is often usefully cheaper so I would tend to default towards that set - all other things being equal - as I check our cars so often the wear indicator becomes almost redundant. In fact, over the years, several of the vehicles in the "family fleet" have suffered damage and/or corrosion to the wiring and/or connectors in the pad wires. It can be a real "pain in the bum" trying to repair this - connectors are not easily available and often come complete with part of the loom at great expense. Of course the system activates only when earthed so isolating these wires doesn't result in the dashboard light illuminating and have no repercussions in terms of trouble codes or for MOT so I just secure any loose wires and forget about the system altogether.
I have found that these so called wear indicators only come on one side and I have never had one do anything useful yet The only time in nealry 50 years of driving a light has come on the dash, it was at the same time the unwired side had worn to the metal I suppose they are there to stop people who would drive when the pads are worn out, Ive never relied on them since. One car I bought may years ago had no brake pad material on it at all and looked as if it had been like it for some time. The price was right so I just repalced everything.
It is funny when you cast you memory back and think of the things that have cropped up. I bought a Citroen BX back in the 80's that was supposed to be a low miler. (about 30K if I remenmber right) I was giving it a look over once I got home and found the discs were worn out and having owned 3 previous BX's wheeled it straight back and said I thought it had been clocked on the basis of close inspection. At the mention of RAC inspections and trading standards they said it was in fact a customers car they were selling and a refund was immediateky produced with a lot less argument than I expected. That was one of Cheshires biggest used car delaers who are unfortuately still going.
 
There's more than one type of calliper fitted so some might be different

when you refit the bottom pin you have to push it against the spring

I have had three pandas they have all been like this so very common

Not my photo, the spring is filling the hole in the centre


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Thats the one, but that one would be well past a bin job in my book. Have they not heard of cleaning things up! Its a simple design and easy to change the pads but seems not to work very well for very long. I wouldnt expect the brakes to work well in that sort of condition. Maybe mine are too clean!
 
Thats the one, but that one would be well past a bin job in my book. Have they not heard of cleaning things up! Its a simple design and easy to change the pads but seems not to work very well for very long. I wouldnt expect the brakes to work well in that sort of condition. Maybe mine are too clean!
All my pandas brakes have been fit and forget

As from the photo I posted earlier I have taken 2mm equally from each side of the disc

Started at 11mm and worn to 7mm so now only fit for the bin,

Never had many problems with the bosch rears except at around 150K the shoes use to delaminated, strange as there use to still be plenty of meat left in them

Only a sample size of 1, the new Lockheed has worn it's shoes away by 110K and two of the 4 retaining pins had rotted away causing the shoes to tip and gauge the drums
 
Well they are only 10 months or so old and only about 6000 miles on them. I was looking today and the N/S is seemingly good its polished up after my last work but the off side has a 7mm band round the outer edge where the pads just arn't doing anything. I think a flapper wheel will be able to clean the rust away if the back side is no worse. I will tell the garage to change the discs if there is more corrosion or uneven wear. You are right and it would probably best to start afresh I can get the discs refaced properly for the next time. The brakes work OK apart form a long pedal which may well be lazy adjusters but I know the dust seals are damaged on the calipers. I wish they had just left the adjutment manual. I have never had a rear brake adjuster that worked for long. The pistons are free as I always give them a good work out / in and our when the pads are changed and they ahve been cleaned and checked twice since hte discs were changed, but once the seal is gone its only a matter of time till they will stick. Its not much more costly to change them than do a re-seal job. Garage say they will use TRW calipers which should be OK I have to say I have little expectation that this will sort the issue I think its just bad engineering. On the health front I am slowly getting better but back to hospital in 10 days as I may now have a gall bladder problem. I wish they'd just dive in and cut out and chuck out all the old bits, lumps and growths in one go! I would if I were a surgeon. It cannot be effective to do only part of the problem and keep going back. I suppose that comment should make me see sense and do the same here!
Sorry Panda Nut, we're all making suggestions and expressing opinions here when you can only effectively do that having actually seen the components in question. I'd have said the discs on our Panda needed changing when I bought it. They were grinding when driven and even when removed from the car looked pretty poor. However I was astonished how well they cleaned up with a smoothish abrasive disc and they are still going strong some 5 years later.

On the health front, I wish you all the best. My gall bladder was removed several years ago after it nearly killed be by bursting and giving me peritonitis! Luckily, and due to the skill of the folks in the hospital, I survived but my digestion is now affected and I can't really handle alcohol any more especially dark beers. I also have problems digesting darker meats. So now I just avoid both altogether because I know if I eat either I'm going to have to stay within running distance of the loo next day! It used to annoy me a lot, especially not being able to enjoy a nice beer, but you soon get used to it and it's had the added benefit that I don't have a problem with my weight any more - eating large portions also results in tummy problems!
 
All my pandas brakes have been fit and forget

As from the photo I posted earlier I have taken 2mm equally from each side of the disc

Started at 11mm and worn to 7mm so now only fit for the bin,

Never had many problems with the bosch rears except at around 150K the shoes use to delaminated, strange as there use to still be plenty of meat left in them

Only a sample size of 1, the new Lockheed has worn it's shoes away by 110K and two of the 4 retaining pins had rotted away causing the shoes to tip and gauge the drums
Yup I would say 7 is pretty thin. I usually take the min disc thickness fairly seriously as to avoid reaching the end of the piston travel thinner dics may need new pads earlier so it keeps working. Its interesting that at 7 it was still OK. Just shows there is a considerable safety margin built into these things.
My concern that it must be 100% right is because its my daughters car. On my drivers I take things much more by feel. The woman in question does not do feel!
 
Never had many problems with the bosch rears except at around 150K the shoes use to delaminated, strange as there use to still be plenty of meat left in them
When i did Becky's rears for the last MOT the rear linings were starting to separate from the shoes. The car's a 2010 and I think the shoes were the originals - would have gone on for a while longer too if not for the failing bonding.
 
Yup I would say 7 is pretty thin. I usually take the min disc thickness fairly seriously as to avoid reaching the end of the piston travel thinner dics may need new pads earlier so it keeps working. Its interesting that at 7 it was still OK. Just shows there is a considerable safety margin built into these things.
My concern that it must be 100% right is because its my daughters car. On my drivers I take things much more by feel. The woman in question does not do feel!
Yep should have done them last year, my bad

It's turned out nicely as the pads are around 3/4 worn down so both needed doing anyhow

I was shocked how bad the rears were, No noise, handbrake works perfectly

Right pain in the bum ordering parts, still not dispatched, had a phone call today saying there were two types fitted to this year, which is fine at least the seller knows what they are selling
 
When i did Becky's rears for the last MOT the rear linings were starting to separate from the shoes. The car's a 2010 and I think the shoes were the originals - would have gone on for a while longer too if not for the failing bonding.
I have had a few that were delaminating and sometimes at a pretty early age and low milage. I strongly suspect the COSHH Regs have more than a little to do with these things having low and variable quality. Its all well and good having perfectly safe adhesives but if they fail, especially on things like brakes it rather makes amockery of hte rules. A noxios glue can often be used if used carefully, but failed brakes are a somewhat more urgent and acute problem. Panda 100 pads were badly affected.

We had a badly leaking caravan years ago, and when I paid a visit to the manufacturer to let them see the whites of my eyes aftre the dealer was unhelpful, they ended up apologising and blaming the affects of COSHH on the available sealants used for some time after these Regs came in. To their credit they loadered the caravan to Bristol from our house in Norfolk and completley rebuild it. It never leaked again. They denied doing anything to it, but it was pretty clear it had been totally apart down to the chassis. All the rusty screws were gone, new door seals and nice new tacky mastic on every panel join. On another occasion well passed the guarantee period they supplied a new roof light FoC and by return of post. Its a shame Fiat dont work to the same standards.
 
I have had a few that were delaminating and sometimes at a pretty early age and low milage. I strongly suspect the COSHH Regs have more than a little to do with these things having low and variable quality. Its all well and good having perfectly safe adhesives but if they fail, especially on things like brakes it rather makes amockery of hte rules. A noxios glue can often be used if used carefully, but failed brakes are a somewhat more urgent and acute problem. Panda 100 pads were badly affected.

We had a badly leaking caravan years ago, and when I paid a visit to the manufacturer to let them see the whites of my eyes aftre the dealer was unhelpful, they ended up apologising and blaming the affects of COSHH on the available sealants used for some time after these Regs came in. To their credit they loadered the caravan to Bristol from our house in Norfolk and completley rebuild it. It never leaked again. They denied doing anything to it, but it was pretty clear it had been totally apart down to the chassis. All the rusty screws were gone, new door seals and nice new tacky mastic on every panel join. On another occasion well passed the guarantee period they supplied a new roof light FoC and by return of post. Its a shame Fiat dont work to the same standards.
Bit like the stories of Rolls Royces of many years ago. Car breaks down and has to be towed to the Rolls garage for repair. When collected by the owner, or more likely his chauffeur, the matter of the bill arises but the workshop replies "Bill sir? what bill? Rolls Royce cars don't break down!
 
Bit like the stories of Rolls Royces of many years ago. Car breaks down and has to be towed to the Rolls garage for repair. When collected by the owner, or more likely his chauffeur, the matter of the bill arises but the workshop replies "Bill sir? what bill? Rolls Royce cars don't break down!
Man pulls up in a Rolls and gets out, there's a young led stood and says to the man that's a lovely car and see's something on the front seat and asks the man what it was and the man replies it'a tee, what's that for the lad says the man replies you put your balls on there before you drive off. Wow the lad says Rolls Royce think of ever thing don't they.
 
Rubber brake hose?
Daft question - are the brake discs, pads, and calipers the same size?
No its a good question but the answer is yes. All changed just 10 /11 months back. The N/S is looking good and shiny across the whole face the off side has a 7mm or so rusty edge strip round the out side. Daughters Seat - the rear pads in particular only operate on some of the disc so there is always a rusty edge inside and outside where they dont contact the pads, but at 21 years old its brakes are still doing what is expected and the discs dont rust apart from the non swept area which gets knocked off when I see the car. I have asked for flexi hoses at the front on teh Panda and will reiterate as it is a real possibility that could be some of the issue. I changed the Seat hoses at 15 years as a precaution . After 10 years is probably best practice to chuck them out and this car is now 12. Considering its life on the road in all weathers I suppose it should be expected that things may need changing. We have all started to expect these things to go on forever and they wont always do this.
 
Went to see Daffo in hospital today. And B****** me the brakes were in perfect fettle so my last session did some good. Rear brakes were full of dust to a daft extent and the adjusters wern't adjusting so a good clean and they are now A1. The dust rubbers are shot on the callipers and the pistons are quite rusty so Im good with new calipers and sliders. Would you believe there are no flexi pipes in stock in this area.... Hopefully being bussed in tomorrow. Discs are now looking OK back and friont so another clean and flat with a sander will do, and they should be good for another 30K or more. Bloody headlamp needing replacement is certainly adding to the bill so I will have to do that.
 
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Well it now has new calipers and flexi hoses and the rear end has been cleaned and prodded. Within 10 mioes the rusty outer edge of the o/s disc is now in contact with the brake pads so will proably resolve. My suspicion remains that this issue is caused by the bushes and sleeves on teh caliper having gone soft allowing twisting and sticking of the calipers when in use. When the car is stationary everything functions exctly as it should and its only when under load that the problem occurs. I shall now monito and see if normal brakingis resored. Toouch wood I now have all three cars with brakes doing what I require them to. i.e work properly and not rust up.
 
Latest bulletin. The near side is 100% OK. The o/s has been apart again and I have reflatted tge pads again and the ring of rust on tge outsude edge of the outer face is reduced from 9mm to 3mm so it may clear up with one more intervention.

Tge back brakes were poor, and it was down to dust. The garage man suggested taje the whees off and use a vacuum cleaner on one of the bolt holes, block the otger holes and it will clear most of it. Ive never tried this, but it sounds good so in tge spring I shall so so. The hand brake now works well and still has some give rather than feeling solid. The ABS seems to work much soober too. I think this is just because the system works so much better Im stopping too fast! The front wheels are doing the same amount judging by the tyre marks it creates when I stamp on the pedal. Overall I am pleased with the results of the spending
. Now need to wax oil or similar the rear axles on all 3 and tge brake pipes / unions and we are good. Next job sill painting again. A patch on the rear door / arch is reluctant to stay painted.
 
Hi to All,
I'm new on this forum and in searching for a confirmation from other panda owners about the front breaks overheating while driving in the city. It's about a Guacamole Panda 169, 1.2 60hp, 2005, manual gearbox which is driven daily by my wife for about 50 kilometers.
I observed that the front brakes are overheating so much that I can't touch the rims or bolts of the front wheels.
What I did change until now: the pads, the discs, caliper piston gasket, brake hose, the brake fluid, everything is clean and grased with copper grease.The fuel consumption is normal.
I don't know if this is normal to panda or not but I have a bigger car and I have to drive very aggressive to overheat the brakes. Panda is driven very gently but even so the front wheels are hot.
 
Is it both sides, wheels plural I guess it is

Wheel bolts too hot to touch is a serious amount of binding and need sorting ASAP

As long as the cars not been driven hard, and you don't use the brakes for a few hundred yards, then roll to a stop and put the handbrake on the discs should be no more than warm, the wheel and bolt should be cold

Videos in Post 93

Pads have to be loose

Sliders have to slide

Are the most common causes
 
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