Another Dealer Quits

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Another Dealer Quits

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I got an email from Middleton last week about this (I bought my 595 Comp from them). They said they were moving to used cars, which I assumed was because there is only so many Fiat 500s you can sell in Bognor. The 500e is just so expensive and the Abarth 500e at almost £40k is ridiculously overpriced.
So it would seem they decided to knock it on the head, as they did with their sister branch out near Fareham (Sarisbury Green) a few years back. Fiat wanted them to invest in their site, but the footfall / sales wouldn’t make financial sense to do so.
So I imagine this is what has happened in Bognor.
Well the Southampton/Sarisbury Green setup was originally AHF Auto based in Winchester. A privately owned by Ayad Fakhri and then fairly successful business. They moved from Winchester to Sarisbury Green. When Ayad came to retire he sold out. AHF became SGM who were then bought out by the Snows group.

All a typical path for most Fiat dealers in the UK. There are very very few (if any) original 60s, 70s, 80s, ..... dealers still trading. I have a list of "old time" dealers I think all sadly now gone.
 
We went from 4 Fiat dealers in Northern Ireland - fairly well distributed toward each corner. That's now just one which sells Abarth and Alfa Romeo too. Other than the 500, they basically stock nothing else for the most part. Last I checked, they had a 2018 Panda Pop for £8k. £1k more than it could have been bought new in 2018, and there's no way it 'appreciated' 20-30k miles and 5 years later. I don't buy it.

These four dealerships were operated by the same franchiser. And to be honest, I remember going in with my girlfriend in 2016/17 just looking, but I'd go for parts the odd time for my old Panda and to get tyres fitted - so they knew me and that I was legitimately interested in the brand. I was a broke student then but any salesman with a bit of sense would have known that someday that wouldn't be the case. But my main gripe was that as I talked about buying a new Panda the guy was legitimately looking at me with embarrassment as if to say "You seriously want to buy a Fiat Panda". The guy was making jokes how they get trade ins with worn clutches and brakes from the elderly people who buy and trade em in, and I found out that he'd recently been transferred from the VW dealership across the road (same franchise network). It was clear he was a bit embarrassed to be selling Fiats and didn't have much interest in the brand or product. I mean if they couldn't sell me a Fiat Panda, they weren't worth their salt as Fiat dealers!!!

I've been up a few times to the only one left. Test drove an Abarth a couple of months ago, what a phenomenal experience that was! Can't fault them too much, but they told me they can only offer 11.9% APR on finance... and that apparently there are new regulations that make it 'discrimination' to offer lower rates for some customers?! (uhm... what? Never missed a payment in my life, near perfect credit score means nothing now?). Too expensive. And they only had that one Panda Pop (pretty sure it's still for sale) at 8k. He said they're unable to get any used stock from the internal Fiat auctions, they're all bought up and usually when they do secure some, they're sold so fast they barely have any time listed.

I sympathise with them because of the lack of new models and certainly with the price increases on the new models. Only a few years ago, our now closed local dealer had beautiful 124s sitting, a range of Panda models cheap to Lounge, a whole collection of colourful 500, 500cs, 500S models and the 500X which had all the features of the day / mass appeal factor (they also had the odd 500L but I'm trying to paint a nice picture here!!!). Realistically now, they've got still that flood of 500s, albeit double what the same car was 6 years ago. Basically no Panda's. A couple of basic old traded in 500Xs. No Tipos, the odd one every so often. No 124s. No 500Ls. Barely any choice. They have the 500E demo car. If you don't want a 500 or 500E, I don't know what they can do really. I knew a few girls from pretty well off families over the years and some of them owned new / nearly new 500s. Not one of them still has a Fiat of any kind. They went right to the Audi's and similar A3 sort of cars if not bigger. Realistically, is there anything Fiat could tempt them with? If the 500X was cheaper I'm sure it would be considered but it's not. They lack the automatic gearbox, heated seats on a lot of models, convertible tops like you'll get with the Germans. I wish Fiat had these options more across the line, but then again, I've found even Toyota (and Lexus) don't tend to even include some of that without an option pack. It boggles my mind, but it's easy to see how the uninitiated consumer will make their decisions from a test drive when the local Fiat dealer (all one of them here) has barely any choice and across the road is a flood of similarly cost, better specced and (sadly) better regarded badges :-(

I don't think Stellantis is good. Sure, makes sense business wise. But it's not going to kick Fiat into gear. If anything their attitude might leave them left only with a bunch of panel moulders / designers. It gives them a license to just sit back and continue to neglect the engineering side of things. Not that they've done nothing in the last 10 years. They released the TwinAir - which has its fans on here, right? Obviously that entire thought train of tiny engine-big turbo from all brands wasn't the way forward for emissions (thanks, EU) and now we've moved on to the EV notion. But they still engineered and built something. The new Firefly engines as well, I wonder how they live up to the old 1.2 FIRE - hopefully reliable. But Fiat still delivered that. All the things we like about the main staples of the range are the basic, proven technologies like the brakes, gearboxes, old parts they could arguably afford to keep the same. That's probably not going to fly into the next 20 years. The Panda lacks cruise control / limiter which is when I think the older tech has started to hold them back. In the last 5 years we're seeing that sort of kit come standard with even A-class city cars. The 500 has no heated seat option, a lot of competitors do and have had the option for years.

Take me, I'd buy a new up to 20k Fiat tomorrow if I could get one with: heated seats, an automatic gearbox, CarPlay. So the Tipo / 500x / 500e - they're all around 30k. That's out of my price range. The 500 / Panda - no automatic option at all (anymore), CarPlay is now an option - great! Heated seats, just not an option on the 500. So if I want a Panda, it's only on the Garmin. Now that's the 18k model - fine. But for that price, 18k for a Panda, which I'd pay, I'm no longer getting a deal, or paying less for the smaller car, I'm paying a premium and I'm lacking cruise control / speed limited. These are the issues I have with signing an agreement. I feel like most people would settle for the lack of features - if they're saving cash. Otherwise, they'll pay a premium for a small car, if it doesn't compromise. An no I'm not talking silly options like ambient lighting or memory seats.. I mean heated seats which are far from a luxury high-tech option these days. I don't think they're truly making it easy for the consumer.

So as these dealers are closing, I don't even know if we can blame the sales people anymore. I think even if they do all they can, it's quite hard. As I'm typing this I got a call from Fiat's research team asking if a dealer has been in touch with me. Which they have. But what can they do about any of what I've said above? It probably frustrates them as much as it does me. I think as above, the Stellantis merger means they can afford to lose some of their network and allow Citroen / Peugeot / Vauxhall dealers to eventually supply parts / service.

Fiat is dead. The Fiat we know and loved anyway, I think the 500X discontinuation is imminent. The Tipo will be dropped next is my bet once the 308 / Astra platform comes for it. But the day I'll really shed a tear is when the 'classic' 500 and current Panda disappear from the website.
 
Fiat is dead. The Fiat we know and loved anyway, I think the 500X discontinuation is imminent. The Tipo will be dropped next is my bet once the 308 / Astra platform comes for it. But the day I'll really shed a tear is when the 'classic' 500 and current Panda disappear from the website.
With the recent and ongoing problems we've been experiencing with the Ibiza and the likelyhood that Becky may fail her next MOT with her rusty rear axle, I've been thinking about what we may do in the not too distant future. In a way Becky is the easier of the two problems. We've decided we'll run her until she fails on the axle and, if nothing else too serious fails at the same time, I'll probably sorn her while I work on changing the axle for an IM Axles replacement - I like that they say their spring pans are made from thicker steel. We'll continue to run her until she's beyond economic repair. Perhaps, at our age, she'll outlive us? but if she has to go to the happy hunting grounds before we give up driving then, at this time, a Suzuki Ignis holds great appeal.

The Ibiza troubles me. It seems much more lightly built than the old Cordoba it replaced or my boy's Mk2 Fabia and with it's little turbo engine I doubt if it's a long term keeper - at next MOT it will be 7 years old - It's soon going to need discs and pads all round, the O/S/F shocker is making a small noise on speed bumps, so I suspect the worst there and I know it's going to need an O/S driveshaft soon - Exhaust back box soon too. There's a good argument to be made for changing it before all this, and maybe other stuff, falls due. Problem is what to replace it with? I've mentioned the Renault Captur, had a ride in one recently, and really liked it. However, timing chain problems seen not unknown, even at quite low mileages, on the Tce engines and it's the Tce 130 that interests me. Clutch has a concentric slave - Ugh! Dual mass flywheel. Electric motorized cable handbrake? Quite fancy the Dacia Duster but it's basically the same car underneath athough they do have a munual handbrake. Looked briefly at some other stuff but nothing that really appeals. However one car does seem to make a lot of sense. The Skoda Scala.

The SE would do just fine for me. It's a little bigger than the Ibiza - although built on a stretched version of the existing Ibiza platform - Twinkle's is the previous platform and it's said the new platform is considerably better. I'd choose the mid powered petrol which has a 6 speed box - Twink had the 5 speed - Don't think it has a D/M flywheel and the slave is on the bellhousing. Also seems to be able to take a full size spare if you order the two position boot floor. Going to sneak into the dealer and take a closer look at one. The one downside is that it's slightly bigger than Twink - who is an estate version of the Ibiza - but not by much, about 10 cm longer and slightly wider. A new, or more likely, nearly new one, would probably see me out. Oh well, there's no urgency, might not like it when I see it close up.
 
With the recent and ongoing problems we've been experiencing with the Ibiza and the likelyhood that Becky may fail her next MOT with her rusty rear axle, I've been thinking about what we may do in the not too distant future. In a way Becky is the easier of the two problems. We've decided we'll run her until she fails on the axle and, if nothing else too serious fails at the same time, I'll probably sorn her while I work on changing the axle for an IM Axles replacement - I like that they say their spring pans are made from thicker steel. We'll continue to run her until she's beyond economic repair. Perhaps, at our age, she'll outlive us? but if she has to go to the happy hunting grounds before we give up driving then, at this time, a Suzuki Ignis holds great appeal.

The Ibiza troubles me. It seems much more lightly built than the old Cordoba it replaced or my boy's Mk2 Fabia and with it's little turbo engine I doubt if it's a long term keeper - at next MOT it will be 7 years old - It's soon going to need discs and pads all round, the O/S/F shocker is making a small noise on speed bumps, so I suspect the worst there and I know it's going to need an O/S driveshaft soon - Exhaust back box soon too. There's a good argument to be made for changing it before all this, and maybe other stuff, falls due. Problem is what to replace it with? I've mentioned the Renault Captur, had a ride in one recently, and really liked it. However, timing chain problems seen not unknown, even at quite low mileages, on the Tce engines and it's the Tce 130 that interests me. Clutch has a concentric slave - Ugh! Dual mass flywheel. Electric motorized cable handbrake? Quite fancy the Dacia Duster but it's basically the same car underneath athough they do have a munual handbrake. Looked briefly at some other stuff but nothing that really appeals. However one car does seem to make a lot of sense. The Skoda Scala.

The SE would do just fine for me. It's a little bigger than the Ibiza - although built on a stretched version of the existing Ibiza platform - Twinkle's is the previous platform and it's said the new platform is considerably better. I'd choose the mid powered petrol which has a 6 speed box - Twink had the 5 speed - Don't think it has a D/M flywheel and the slave is on the bellhousing. Also seems to be able to take a full size spare if you order the two position boot floor. Going to sneak into the dealer and take a closer look at one. The one downside is that it's slightly bigger than Twink - who is an estate version of the Ibiza - but not by much, about 10 cm longer and slightly wider. A new, or more likely, nearly new one, would probably see me out. Oh well, there's no urgency, might not like it when I see it close up.
I think I said before that I’d consider a captur and, as we only ever hear about issues, I’m inclined to think some of it is a self-prophecy exaggeration (like fiats and electrics, I’ve worked at Mazda and Seat>VW and they were no better BUT no worse). Friend has a Suzuki Ignis, it’s a decent car but I prefer the panda, certainly off-road, but there are many more performance/luxury upgrades for the ignis, especially if you want to go rallying…it’s also an ‘odd’ car, with more than the driver in, it seems to become wallowy and not so precise and, like the panda, it’s getting old (yes, not AS old, but not the complete redesign that many claimed) and again, like the panda, the hybrid is a joke
 
Yes, we hired one years ago on a foreign holiday - probably Greece or Cyprus - just about rattled the fillings out of our teeth! Didn't get stuck anywhere though.
Yeah, they are unbeatable off-road as standard, with no mods, bit on-road, they’re bouncy, imprecise, uncomfortable over distance, no room in rear…but honest
 
Yeah, they are unbeatable off-road as standard, with no mods, bit on-road, they’re bouncy, imprecise, uncomfortable over distance, no room in rear…but honest
Back in 2013-14 I actually really wanted one of these!

Eventually I test drove a new one at our local dealer (now also closed). My knees were right against the door card and I’m short / thin! Had a tall friend in the back he wasn’t a fan!

I think I’d love to have one though, compromises and all! Probably last as long as they’ve been selling em!
 
Back in 2013-14 I actually really wanted one of these!

Eventually I test drove a new one at our local dealer (now also closed). My knees were right against the door card and I’m short / thin! Had a tall friend in the back he wasn’t a fan!

I think I’d love to have one though, compromises and all! Probably last as long as they’ve been selling em!
Original SJs, MK2 and MK3 were rot boxes but chassis’s lasted quite well. Some had engine problems, mainly due to small engines being thrashed, ended up being smokey, seizing and wheezing. I remember there were folk sticking Toyota starlet engines in them.
Wife lost confidence in a much later Jimny, 2004, that just cut out on the motorway and was fobbed off by the dealer…her dad was a tank driving instructor then AA electronics trainer so he went round and made them sort the car…they couldn’t, so she got her money back and I persuaded her into the Panda 4x4
 
It gets confusing now between dealers and franchised garages that appear to be able to act as a dealer and just ignore it when it suits them.

Evans Halshaw destroyed the vauxhall trade club by refusing to honour the trade club prices for older car clubs, There used to be some amazing prices on offer if you were a member of offical vauxhall (VBOA) clubs.

Then you have one garage in East Kilbride, Parks, and that one site is a dealer for 10 different brands. And it's not like a proper dealer of old, the staff behind the parts counter know nothing of the cars you ask about.
 
Then you have one garage in East Kilbride, Parks, and that one site is a dealer for 10 different brands. And it's not like a proper dealer of old, the staff behind the parts counter know nothing of the cars you ask about.
We don't really see much of Parks over this side but we have the same problem with very large dealer sites which have individual showrooms for the different makes but the workshop round the back handles them all. I don't really want a chap who's just been doing something to a Peugeot/Citroen moving over to do a Skoda/Seat in the next door bay. I suppose most of the standard service tasks wouldn't be a problem, anyone can do oil and filter changes and point a camera at the brakes and suspension joints and tyres etc, but when it comes down to stuff like timing belts and chains or doing a clutch, I want someone who works on that brand/manufacturer's product day in day out.
 
The Ibiza troubles me. It seems much more lightly built than the old Cordoba it replaced or my boy's Mk2 Fabia and with it's little turbo engine I doubt if it's a long term keeper - at next MOT it will be 7 years old - It's soon going to need discs and pads all round, the O/S/F shocker is making a small noise on speed bumps, so I suspect the worst there and I know it's going to need an O/S driveshaft soon - Exhaust back box soon too. There's a good argument to be made for changing it before all this, and maybe other stuff, falls due.
How many miles has your Seat got on the Clock?

Just out of interest. my golf will turn 8 at the end of this month (picked up new on 01/09/2015) and it doesn't have half the problems you're having with your seat. Yes it needs some new rear pads and discs soon but it has just clocked 93k miles so i'd expect brakes to be needed. The rest of the car is largely in very good condition with only light surface rust on suspension components and the exhaust is like new.

I find it interesting that a well looked after but younger Seat should have so many issues. Is this a case of Spanish Steel ?
 
How many miles has your Seat got on the Clock?

Just out of interest. my golf will turn 8 at the end of this month (picked up new on 01/09/2015) and it doesn't have half the problems you're having with your seat. Yes it needs some new rear pads and discs soon but it has just clocked 93k miles so i'd expect brakes to be needed. The rest of the car is largely in very good condition with only light surface rust on suspension components and the exhaust is like new.

I find it interesting that a well looked after but younger Seat should have so many issues. Is this a case of Spanish Steel ?
Who knows? I'm getting a bit fed up with it though. Oh, she's only just turned 30,000 miles by the way, March 2016 reg. The bodywork and suspension don't look too bad although there is some crusty rust on the rear spring pans, suspension arms etc, nothing of great importance yet though. The exhaust back box is corroded down both sides and I can see it doing a "skin peel" much as the panda boxes do - if it's double skinned? Both my boy's Fabias were pretty much trouble free apart from the 1.6CR diesel engine in his Fabia Scout which was part of the Dieselgate "thing". It never ran as well as the 1.9 PD in the one before it and suffered ERG problems which were partially dealt with with an electronic EGR delete but it still never drove "well", didn't have any other problems though.

I'm very much looking forward to looking over the Scala by way of comparison.
 
I'm very much looking forward to looking over the Scala by way of comparison.

I looked at these, an interesting thing in that they are on the Polo chassis not the Golf.

I think my main takeaway was they are either incredibly meanly specced or as expensive as a Golf.

Or at least they were pre-covid.
 
I looked at these, an interesting thing in that they are on the Polo chassis not the Golf.

I think my main takeaway was they are either incredibly meanly specced or as expensive as a Golf.

Or at least they were pre-covid.
Yup. It's the one up from basic spec that interests me. SE trim. Also the lower trim versions don't seem to be holding their price very well so I could be tempted to look for a used one around maybe 18 months to two years old being as I'm in no hurry and have plenty of time to be fussy.
 
nice looking car but had a little go on the configuration doo-dad and very quickly had a £30k car
Aye, start looking at the higher specs and wouldn't be worth it. However I don't even own a smart phone and have no interest in "tech", sun roofs or any of that malarkey. As long as it's got cruise, a water temp gauge and a nice big spare wheel it'll do me. 16" wheels on 205/55r16 tyres - most common size in UK today - manual aircon, manual hand brake, manual tailgate, nice big boot (trunk to you Cheest), in other words K.I.S.S!
 
Aye, start looking at the higher specs and wouldn't be worth it. However I don't even own a smart phone and have no interest in "tech", sun roofs or any of that malarkey. As long as it's got cruise, a water temp gauge and a nice big spare wheel it'll do me. 16" wheels on 205/55r16 tyres - most common size in UK today - manual aircon, manual hand brake, manual tailgate, nice big boot (trunk to you Cheest), in other words K.I.S.S!

I wasn't looking for anything "fancy" as such but spec and performance parity with the current car.

Even then it went insane...given you're adding on even basics like rear side airbags as a cost option (or they were at the time). Seem to recall the spare is optional as well. Even a leather wheel with steering wheel controls is an option on a 24k spec...and cannot be had unless you buy the winter pack for 700 quid+.

At that point my thoughts were why wouldn't I just buy a Mazda 3 for less?, get more spec, more power and a better looking car...but I may be vaguely partisan. Or an Octavia...which is meant to be more expensive but by the time the specs are aligned not really...
 
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Aye, start looking at the higher specs and wouldn't be worth it. However I don't even own a smart phone and have no interest in "tech", sun roofs or any of that malarkey. As long as it's got cruise, a water temp gauge and a nice big spare wheel it'll do me. 16" wheels on 205/55r16 tyres - most common size in UK today - manual aircon, manual hand brake, manual tailgate, nice big boot (trunk to you Cheest), in other words K.I.S.S!
I do like my creature comforts but at £30k there were a lot of silly things and options i could still have selected if id wanted electrically opening boot and no keyless entry or optional driver aids.

Things i did select would make it similar to the spec of my current car.

The car looks really nice in the red which comes with a premium, just a shame there are so few colour options, i’m not a fan of blue white grey or black and that’s seemingly all the other options for colour.

I agree with keeping it simple, I also agree with seeing what 6 month old deals you can get if you go to the dealership.

When we bought our current countryman from Mini it was bought sight unseen as we got a list of every car they had in group stock of which there were hundreds, and the sales manager who we knew quite well after a few years of repeatedly buying minis, interpreted what all the codes meant, so we knew what colour it would be and what the minimum spec it would have, we found when it arrived at the dealer it had a few other things that were not on the list, but doing it this way meant we saved thousands off what the list price would be, if you specced the car new and waited for it to be built. This was brand new as well but previous minis we had bought at 6 months/4000ish miles
 
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