Technical 500 handling

[RussH]

40mm on a 500? It'll be on the bump stops won't it?

I agree with maxi. Some of the worst things I've ever driven have been lowered with no understanding of the impact on the geometry. Or the interactions between damper and springs.

You could end up with a pig with lots of lipstick on it.
IMHO I'd start with the best damping you can get and see how that works.

Have to agree that they aren't the most inspiring drive through.

Maybe try asking on the Abarth forum?

 

[jrkitching]

It's meant to be sporty so it's got alloys and all stickers and what not .... But there's nothing sporty about the handling she handles like a shopping trolley ..... Even when going steady it's extremely light on the back end and steps out all the time .... Is anyone's like this aswell ... Iv noticed when stood looking at the car side on its a lot lower on the front than the rear ???? Help please

It's meant to look sporty - that's why it's got alloys and all stickers and what not...

The handling is exactly the same as the basic car.

Rear ride height is very load dependent, so when standing empty it will look tail high.

Put a couple of folks in the back seats and it will look very different.

The stock rear suspension looks to me like the designer took a ball point pen apart and just scaled up what they found inside.

Some folks have transformed the handling by fitting decent aftermarket suspension, but the emphasis should be on proper damping and more progressive springing, rather than on lowering the car.

 

[pete1234]

Ok thanks for the advice ... I'm not planning on just choping away at the spring it would be done properly springs shocks the lot ... Cheers x

 

[306maxi]

B14's............. Proper damping and good springs

 

[Mick F]

40mm on a 500? It'll be on the bump stops won't it?

On a different thread on here, I posted how high our TA is off the road.
I should say, "how low our TA is".

Just about 2" off the road as measured from the plastic spoiler underneath the engine.

If you go down by 40mm, it leaves you with not a lot of room at all.

Hope that helps,
Mick.

 

[ahmett]

On a different thread on here, I posted how high our TA is off the road.
I should say, "how low our TA is".

Just about 2" off the road as measured from the plastic spoiler underneath the engine.

If you go down by 40mm, it leaves you with not a lot of room at all.

Hope that helps,
Mick.

im 30 lower with the B14's

 

[Mick F]

Just been Googling .......

I see that the 500 had an update to the rear suspension from 2010. No doubt someone can tell us from what VIN this happened. I read that it came in first with the 500C, then throughout the range later.

I also read that they used the rear system from the Ford Ka and you can tell if yours has it by looking under the rear for an anti roll bar. Ours is a 2011, and I can't see an anti roll bar. Maybe I'm not looking well enough.

There are reports that the 500 is jiggly and the rear goes out on roundabouts, there are other reports that the 500 sticks to the road. For my own part, ours is "roller skate" like, and handles quite well.

Dunno really, but I'm pleased with ours and have no handling issues.

TTFN,
Mick.

 

[UFI]

am thinking of lowering mine too, have you noticed how much it rolls? how squirrelly it is at speed and under breaking from spreed? the back end is far to easy to step out, I'm not sure about yours but does yours just seem like it wants to spin up and slide about everywhere and anywhere?

Take a Jeep Wrangler for a spin and get back to me on body roll

But seriously, on track UFI does nothing but understeer, no amount of throwing it about could provoke the back to step out. It's completely composed at speed and under heavy braking. If anything it's too safe and predicable to be fun on track.

On a bumpy country lane the rear end will dance though. Dampers would help but ultimately it's a lightweight, overtyred, FWD supermini, you have to be realistic. At least you'll always be able to out handle a Jeep

 

[The Twins]

Here's what a 500 looks like on Koni FSD shocks and Eibach Sportline springs.
It's 40mm lower than standard and its a pain in speed bumps. Handling is really good though and not too harsh on bumpy roads.
I had some 595/SS springs at first but the ride height increased as they are designed for the heavier 1.4 Abarth.

 

[306maxi]

Take a Jeep Wrangler for a spin and get back to me on body roll

But seriously, on track UFI does nothing but understeer, no amount of throwing it about could provoke the back to step out. It's completely composed at speed and under heavy braking. If anything it's too safe and predicable to be fun on track.

On a bumpy country lane the rear end will dance though. Dampers would help but ultimately it's a lightweight, overtyred, FWD supermini, you have to be realistic. At least you'll always be able to out handle a Jeep

That's the thing, Perth roads are vastly different to British roads, pushing on down country roads the back end is easily provoked by mid corner bumps. It's something the average person probably isn't going to take issue with however.

I went for a drive the other day with some people from work and on the way back from our destination I was at the front of the convoy and a coworker observed that my 500 likes to lift up its inside rear and that the back end is very wobbly and seemed to step out very easily.

The issue is the damping and to a lesser extent the springs. B14's will sort this out as the damping is fantastic, you don't need to do the whole drop, plus the springs are progressive springs so they get harder the closer you get to the bump stops, the special bump stops which Bilstein include so as to still give you a decent amount of rear travel after dropping the ride height.

 

[306maxi]

Just been Googling .......

I see that the 500 had an update to the rear suspension from 2010. No doubt someone can tell us from what VIN this happened. I read that it came in first with the 500C, then throughout the range later.

I also read that they used the rear system from the Ford Ka and you can tell if yours has it by looking under the rear for an anti roll bar. Ours is a 2011, and I can't see an anti roll bar. Maybe I'm not looking well enough.

There are reports that the 500 is jiggly and the rear goes out on roundabouts, there are other reports that the 500 sticks to the road. For my own part, ours is "roller skate" like, and handles quite well.

Dunno really, but I'm pleased with ours and have no handling issues.

TTFN,
Mick.

If you don't push on then the 500 is absolutely fine, push on and it's terrible. You are making the classic mistake of confusing grip with handling. My 500 will grip like sheet to a shovel, but not when the tyres aren't in contact with the road which can happen sometimes.

I've never drive a car where I thought that the cars suspension was in need of upgrade. I'm not one of these people that lower every car they own and in fact I've never lowered a car before.

The upgraded rear beam started off in the Abarth. It wasn't from the Ka, it was just that the Ka had it from launch. Ditto the 500c

It's also not an anti roll bar, it's just a stiffened up rear beam and all cars built from the start of 2010 onwards will have it.

 

[Mick F]

A few little results ......
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motoring/fiat-500-adopts-ford-kas-set
https://www.fiatforum.com/500/200066-anti-roll-bar-standard-3.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring...When-did-Fiat-500-get-revised-suspension.html

This is a screenshot from this PDF from Fiat:
http://www.fiat.co.uk/uk/PublishingImages/brochure/150.pdf

I'm as confused as most folk, I reckon.

Cheers,
Mick.

 

[306maxi]

It's not an anti rollbar though....... The Italians are famously bad at suspension nomenclature, lots of Alfa Romeo's are listed as having multilink rear suspension when they have MacPherson strut suspension. My Panda 4x4 has an ARB at the rear, but that's because it has independent rear suspension.

I've never actually seen anything reliable which suggests that Ford somehow pioneered the stiffer rear beam, in the media all it takes is one person to put 2 and 2 to get 3 and the lie gets propagated and becomes "common knowledge"

 

[jrkitching]

I'm as confused as most folk, I reckon.

It's not that bad - Fiat have done far more confusing things than this.

The 500 launched with a rear suspension setup that was 'adequate' - but only just. I remember test driving one of the very early cars and deciding that the ride was just too harsh to consider buying it.

From the 2010 model year onwards, Fiat fitted a much stiffer rear axle & different springs/dampers; ride quality of the later cars is significantly better (even I can tell the difference at the speeds I drive ). All 500C's have the same later type of rear suspension.

A quick look under the car (from the back) will tell you which type is fitted - there's an easily visible round steel bar running through the rear beam on the later cars. A good, though not completely infallible, rule of thumb is that if the car has S/S, it will also have the revised suspension. (S/S became a standard fitment on the 2010 model year cars; it was an option before that, but only rarely specified).

 

[zanes]

A good, though not completely infallible, rule of thumb is that if the car has S/S, it will also have the revised suspension. (S/S became a standard fitment on the 2010 model year cars; it was an option before that, but only rarely specified).

Wasn't stop start only fitted to a specific "stop and start" model before it was rolled out across the range? Seem to remember it was pop-like interior with unusual alloys and a badge on one of the pillars?

 

[306maxi]

If I recall correctly the start and stop model was a lounge with different wheels and no glass roof

 

[306maxi]

In fact from my guide....

"Start&Stop adds the following to the Pop spec – Body coloured heated mirrors, chrome kit, rear head restraints, split fold rear seats, air conditioning, leather steering wheel, Blue&Me, 15@ U-spoke alloys and also the Bosch Start&Stop system which cuts the engine when you’re sitting in traffic to save fuel. It is available with black or ivory ambience (Which means black or ivory coloured steering wheel, radio and heating controls. S&S comes with the same seat options as the Pop"

 

[Mick F]

So if Fiat say there's a rear anti roll bar, but in fact there isn't, what are they going to say if someone takes them to task about this?

Is there one, or is there not?

If you go back to the forum thread I linked, you get this as the final post:

In the short period of time I actually had my TwinAir I did peek at the rear beam and mine has the rear anti roll bar.

Still puzzled.
Mick.

 

[306maxi]

I once looked underneath my car and there was a gibbon, Dawn French and Hitler. Just because someone calls it an anti-roll bar doesn't make it one.

 

[jrkitching]

Wasn't stop start only fitted to a specific "stop and start" model before it was rolled out across the range? Seem to remember it was pop-like interior with unusual alloys and a badge on one of the pillars?

IIRC it was both.

There was a specific 'Stop&Start' model, and you could also specify S/S as an option on any model - just like the Lounge had a bunch of stuff as standard, but which could, if you so wished, be added individually to a different model - so there may be a few Pop's out there with a glass roof, for instance.