Technical 2013 Fiat Doblo front wishbone replacement

[Suggsey]

Hello all, having just replaced the front springs (again, damned annoying don’t use NAPA springs they’re out of spec!) and ended up actually buying new Bilstein shocks to go with the new springs and top mounts were only two years old oh and new droplinks, two weeks on I’ve now got damned metal knocking from the front end. Bit of an odd one as it’s not constant rattle/knocking but feels and sounds horrendous. Thought initially it was grease spatter from road on inside of discs/pads so cleaned them down really well when I jacked it up to check and lock for an obvious loose part Ie hub/driveshaft/steering rack even caliper. Put crowbar on front and rear wishbone bushes area and not much movement or obvious tearing of the vertical rubber and couldn’t induce knock from ball joint but my main suspect is a debonded bushing.
Good old Fiat like on the 500 have blocked off access to the front bolt, my question is can the job be done without taking off front bumper Ie can the front carrier bolts be access just with undertray off or have I got the 500 ball ache of total strip down/front end removal?
Sod’s Law it’s going to start raining for a week too

 

[bugsymike]

Hello all, having just replaced the front springs (again, damned annoying don’t use NAPA springs they’re out of spec!) and ended up actually buying new Bilstein shocks to go with the new springs and top mounts were only two years old oh and new droplinks, two weeks on I’ve now got damned metal knocking from the front end. Bit of an odd one as it’s not constant rattle/knocking but feels and sounds horrendous. Thought initially it was grease spatter from road on inside of discs/pads so cleaned them down really well when I jacked it up to check and lock for an obvious loose part Ie hub/driveshaft/steering rack even caliper. Put crowbar on front and rear wishbone bushes area and not much movement or obvious tearing of the vertical rubber and couldn’t induce knock from ball joint but my main suspect is a debonded bushing.
Good old Fiat like on the 500 have blocked off access to the front bolt, my question is can the job be done without taking off front bumper Ie can the front carrier bolts be access just with undertray off or have I got the 500 ball ache of total strip down/front end removal?
Sod’s Law it’s going to start raining for a week too

This is my 2010 Doblo Maxi Van n/s/f if any help as bottom tray off at present.

 

[Suggsey]

This is my 2010 Doblo Maxi Van n/s/f if any help as bottom tray off at present.

Two hours battling flipping crappy plastic fittings and rusted screws and only just got the bumper, undertrays and wheel arch liners off and out the way! Mine is the next model on and there’s two crash bar legs that have to come off just to get to that horizontal wishbone bolt……hence all the dismantling!

 

[bugsymike]

Two hours battling flipping crappy plastic fittings and rusted screws and only just got the bumper, undertrays and wheel arch liners off and out the way! Mine is the next model on and there’s two crash bar legs that have to come off just to get to that horizontal wishbone bolt……hence all the dismantling!

Sorry, that's a pain. I thought mine was the first of the later version as it has the different headlights etc. it is a 1.6 which I thought went up to around 2015 or so.

 

[Suggsey]

Sorry, that's a pain. I thought mine was the first of the later version as it has the different headlights etc. it is a 1.6 which I thought went up to around 2015 or so.

I wish mine was

 

[bugsymike]

I wish mine was

Snap? Unless it's because mine is a 1 tonne payload Maxi van with independant rear suspension, whereas the earlier version had cart springs up to 2009 I think.

 

[Suggsey]

Snap? Unless it's because mine is a 1 tonne payload Maxi van with independant rear suspension, whereas the earlier version had cart springs up to 2009 I think.

Maybe because yours is full blown Van that they’ve not made it such a ️ ache.
Got it all done……and still knocking
Two new track rod ends next, can’t believe it’ll be a driveshaft as there’s no clicking, nothing under full lock either way or hard acceleration and I couldn’t feel any excessive play or rotation problems turning the axles by hand. It’s proper for me head scratching.

 

[vexorg]

Hello all, having just replaced the front springs (again, damned annoying don’t use NAPA springs they’re out of spec!)

What was wrong with the springs?
Our local motorfactor seems to have changed to Napa, and so far I've fould all the stuff very good.

 

[Suggsey]

What was wrong with the springs?
Our local motorfactor seems to have changed to Napa, and so far I've fould all the stuff very good.

The first full diameter wind of spring was about 1cm bigger, thinner gauge steel and over three weeks they were fitted the lowest part of the spring sank and sat inside the next coil which in turn sat on the actual shock spring seat pad outer clashing badly!! Both sides had done the same. Obviously took a while to realise as every time I jacked it up the spring returned to full length.
Measured them to some much more expensive Sachs springs hence I know they were out of spec/tolerances.
To be fair the parts supplier acknowledged it’s a particular problem and has been encountered by others too. My mates a mechanic and he’s even had it at work with some of the cheapest end springs.
I may just have been unlucky (as it seems I am at the moment when it comes to the car).
Anyway the Sachs ones despite being £98 each are way better quality (including the paint finish which let’s face it seems to cause the death of most springs with corrosion issues weakening them).

 

[bugsymike]

Any chance the noise is from the top strut mounting area?

 

[Suggsey]

They’re only two years old and looked and felt in good condition and the noise is definitely coming from low down.
I’m hoping once I’ve replaced track rod ends (which are originals and therefore 10 years old) it may help. Failing that it’s got to be driveshafts/final drive related…..although it’s got two new NAPA branded drop links on it……

 

[bugsymike]

They’re only two years old and looked and felt in good condition and the noise is definitely coming from low down.
I’m hoping once I’ve replaced track rod ends (which are originals and therefore 10 years old) it may help. Failing that it’s got to be driveshafts/final drive related…..although it’s got two new NAPA branded drop links on it……

Is it a hard noise or more of a bump, like possibly the anti roll bar inner mounting rubbers?

 

[Suggsey]

No it’s a hard metallic knock when I did the wishbones I checked roll bar bushes and they’re in good condition, checked engine and gearbox mounts in case one of them had failed, exhaust etc etc etc checked driveshafts spun by hand okay, all gaiters intact. I’m hoping that it’s still disc/pad contamination from some grease I’d driven through at some point (used couple of litres of brake cleaner and it washed a fair bit off) hence I know gaiters are all good. It’s accelerating and braking in a straight line and not constantly rattling/knocking in a straight line and it’s hard to say if it’s worse after brake application or not.
I’m going to abduct my mechanic mate and take him a drive and make him scratch his head too!

 

[bugsymike]

No it’s a hard metallic knock when I did the wishbones I checked roll bar bushes and they’re in good condition, checked engine and gearbox mounts in case one of them had failed, exhaust etc etc etc checked driveshafts spun by hand okay, all gaiters intact. I’m hoping that it’s still disc/pad contamination from some grease I’d driven through at some point (used couple of litres of brake cleaner and it washed a fair bit off) hence I know gaiters are all good. It’s accelerating and braking in a straight line and not constantly rattling/knocking in a straight line and it’s hard to say if it’s worse after brake application or not.
I’m going to abduct my mechanic mate and take him a drive and make him scratch his head too!

It is a good idea to take your mate for a ride, he may be able to suggest different things to help pin point the noise, which always helps.
As long as he isn't like me and takes the p*ss saying "I have found the noise, it's the nut lose behind the steering wheel"

 

[Suggsey]

It is a good idea to take your mate for a ride, he may be able to suggest different things to help pin point the noise, which always helps.
As long as he isn't like me and takes the p*ss saying "I have found the noise, it's the nut lose behind the steering wheel"

 

[Suggsey]

The first full diameter wind of spring was about 1cm bigger, thinner gauge steel and over three weeks they were fitted the lowest part of the spring sank and sat inside the next coil which in turn sat on the actual shock spring seat pad outer clashing badly!! Both sides had done the same. Obviously took a while to realise as every time I jacked it up the spring returned to full length.
Measured them to some much more expensive Sachs springs hence I know they were out of spec/tolerances.
To be fair the parts supplier acknowledged it’s a particular problem and has been encountered by others too. My mates a mechanic and he’s even had it at work with some of the cheapest end springs.
I may just have been unlucky (as it seems I am at the moment when it comes to the car).
Anyway the Sachs ones despite being £98 each are way better quality (including the paint finish which let’s face it seems to cause the death of most springs with corrosion issues weakening them).

Right just an update for folks should they come to do the job, yep it’s a pain the the arse. Was fine and quiet for two days, came back from supermarket and knock knock knock knock the next morning!!!!!!
Been to my experienced mechanic mate this morning and even he’s scratching his head but we have eliminated the tie rods/track rod ends, wishbones and ball joint as they’re brand new and drop links and anti roll bar bushes and driveshafts and engine/gearbox mounts or any gearbox issue. He’s isolated it to it must be either the brand new Bilstein shocks failed (but no vibration at speed so I doubt this) or the top mounts which although new a couple of years ago (I had a garage do it as it was snowing when spring snapped and too mount had been creaking) and he thinks the spring may be binding up and tapping the bodywork. So just been and picked up two new top mounts and they’re significantly better made/additional things on them over the ones I remember swapping over a few weeks ago onto the new shocks/springs.
So hopefully tomorrow (or the next dry good few hours) they’ll be swapped out and fingers crossed all resolved.

 

[Suggsey]

Right just an update for folks should they come to do the job, yep it’s a pain the the arse. Was fine and quiet for two days, came back from supermarket and knock knock knock knock the next morning!!!!!!
Been to my experienced mechanic mate this morning and even he’s scratching his head but we have eliminated the tie rods/track rod ends, wishbones and ball joint as they’re brand new and drop links and anti roll bar bushes and driveshafts and engine/gearbox mounts or any gearbox issue. He’s isolated it to it must be either the brand new Bilstein shocks failed (but no vibration at speed so I doubt this) or the top mounts which although new a couple of years ago (I had a garage do it as it was snowing when spring snapped and too mount had been creaking) and he thinks the spring may be binding up and tapping the bodywork. So just been and picked up two new top mounts and they’re significantly better made/additional things on them over the ones I remember swapping over a few weeks ago onto the new shocks/springs.
So hopefully tomorrow (or the next dry good few hours) they’ll be swapped out and fingers crossed all resolved.

It gets more interesting…..the garage that “fitted new top mounts and springs” a couple of years ago actually had fitted the left hand top mount on the right side and vise versa!!!!! And not only that they’d packed the old ones with grease not even new mounts!!!!! I’ve only ever done one side at a time so I couldn’t have messed them up. No wonder springs were tapping body work and Snapping prematurely! Of course with all the work I’ve done I have zero chance of proving the above but rest assured the garage concerned will not be used by any of my friends and family. Anyway test drive done over plenty of speed bumps and poor road surfaces and totally smooth silent suspension action now. I’ll have to get tracking checked on Tuesday/Wednesday as the tyres are relatively new and don’t want to trash them unnecessarily……or cause premature suspension wear .

 

[con95a]

It gets more interesting…..the garage that “fitted new top mounts and springs” a couple of years ago actually had fitted the left hand top mount on the right side and vise versa!!!!! And not only that they’d packed the old ones with grease not even new mounts!!!!! I’ve only ever done one side at a time so I couldn’t have messed them up. No wonder springs were tapping body work and Snapping prematurely! Of course with all the work I’ve done I have zero chance of proving the above but rest assured the garage concerned will not be used by any of my friends and family. Anyway test drive done over plenty of speed bumps and poor road surfaces and totally smooth silent suspension action now. I’ll have to get tracking checked on Tuesday/Wednesday as the tyres are relatively new and don’t want to trash them unnecessarily……or cause premature suspension wear .

This problem you had sounds exactly like the one I'm facing. One of my top mounts is squeaking and I've got an inconsistent metal knocking. I thought it sounded lower down, so I've changed the control arms and drop links as they were both original and had some play. Was about to try the tie rod ends, but I'm thinking I'll replace the top mounts first now. You said you bought some that seemed significantly better, can you remember what brand and from where?

Glad you got yours sorted, gives me hope!

 

[Suggsey]

This problem you had sounds exactly like the one I'm facing. One of my top mounts is squeaking and I've got an inconsistent metal knocking. I thought it sounded lower down, so I've changed the control arms and drop links as they were both original and had some play. Was about to try the tie rod ends, but I'm thinking I'll replace the top mounts first now. You said you bought some that seemed significantly better, can you remember what brand and from where?

Glad you got yours sorted, gives me hope!

Hi, yes the “new top mounts” the garage hadn’t fitted were Fiat originals just they’d injected some grease into the nylon bearing surfaces!!!!
The replacements I purchased were the stock ones available from Euro car parts and are marked Left and Right specific I’ve attached the receipt that has part details on £20 a side.
If you’ve fitted cheap springs and they’ve ovalised in any way if your top mounts are also on the wrong way round the springs either collapsed onto the spring seat or just tapping the inner wheel arch.
I fitted new Bikstein shocks which were £105 each and Sachs springs at £98 each!!
Make sure the top nut of the shock is torqued up once fitted on the car and wheels on the ground and top mount three bolts. Don’t do it wheels in the air as you won’t achieve correct torque. Any knocking still left check you’ve done up drop link nuts to correct torque as the tiniest amount of play in one of them will knock loudly.

 

[Suggsey]

Oh and under no circumstances use an impact gun on centre but of the shock as it can most likely damage the rod assembly within the shock and cause a knocking at top end of stroke/weighting/unweighting of the wheel.