Technical 103hp TA engine differences

[bgunn]

Some useful information Bgunn. Change in direction for Fiat from IHI turbos and more recently the use of Garrett turbos on the MA and the APE and the GPA SS.

Don't forget the TA is small - Mitsubishi are pretty skilled in titchy turbos, so the others might not have suited the application required.

So with the 6 speed version of the C514 does that meant that it is not as strong as the 5 speed which is rated at 150Nm ?

Same rating - it's the same basic gearbox with a different selector (for the extra gear) and another gear tacked on the end under the pressed steel cover. The 85PS TA is quoted as producing 145Nm torque, at peak.

Given the increase in turbo size from the current model - do you reckon that the TD02 turbo is maxed out and that a Tuning box could shorten it's life ?

I don't think it's maxed out, but might not work optimally if the boost level is increased, as you'll move too far up the boost map, reducing efficiency and ending up with a very hot charge.

 

[bgunn]

The reason for the 103hp integrated manifold/ cylinder head is to keep the turbo (manifold) cooler as it is now cooled directly by the radiator. This lets them run more boost while maintaining normal turbo temps.

This wouldn't be an issue normally, but a hot turbo can easily be cooked by the S/S since as far as I can tell, there's no S/S parameter that monitors turbo temp.

Late to this, as I'm taking a new look at tuning the TA engine, but the reasoning for the integrated exhaust manifold is wrong, it's done primarily for Euro 6 emissions - incorporating the exhaust manifold into the head improves the coolant warmup, which means the engine can come off cold running enrichment sooner. EGTs won't really be affected by cooling the manifold.

I would argue that a pretty large restriction on the TA engine is the shockingly bad exhaust manifold which is a simple 'log' design, pointing the two exhaust runners towards each other, and then the turbo is hanging off the side of that log. I'm thinking a proper tubular manifold that gracefully curves towards the inlet flange of a turbo that's separate would be a lot better. And look, you can get twin scroll TD02 turbos:

http://shopping.kinugawaturbo.com/turbochargergenuinemitsubi****d02smalltwinscroll.aspx

I don't, for a second, think this is genuine, and the compressor map needs to be reviewed in order to select the correct wheel sizes and trims, but it's food for thought. Even if you're not changing the turbo, you're probably likely to gain a quicker spoolup, maybe even by as much as 100-200 rpm, which can be significant.

 

[The Twins]

Great info bgunn : )
I'm going for the MM tuning module in the next couple of weeks. Also getting a free flow centre pipe to go with the MM rear pipe too.

 

[306maxi]

I also agree with Bgunn about the manicat. Personally I also don't feel that the turbo will get cooked by S&S. I know RUI loves it when I mention out Subaru, but it's done 220k miles or so on the original turbo and it's an old school late 80's design turbo. If that can cope with the life it's had, then a modern turbo will be good for at least 100-150k miles with S&S.

 

[The Twins]

I also agree with Bgunn about the manicat. Personally I also don't feel that the turbo will get cooked by S&S. I know RUI loves it when I mention out Subaru, but it's done 220k miles or so on the original turbo and it's an old school late 80's design turbo. If that can cope with the life it's had, then a modern turbo will be good for at least 100-150k miles with S&S.

He he, you snook another Subaru comment in maxi ; )
If I've given the little fella a load if stick I do allow for a bit if tickover before swithching off.
Remember the hot start issues on the R5 Turbo? Used to take 20 mins to re start after a really hard drive.

 

[arorat]

I also agree with Bgunn about the manicat. Personally I also don't feel that the turbo will get cooked by S&S. I know RUI loves it when I mention out Subaru, but it's done 220k miles or so on the original turbo and it's an old school late 80's design turbo. If that can cope with the life it's had, then a modern turbo will be good for at least 100-150k miles with S&S.

Where is RUI ?

 

[bgunn]

Used to take 20 mins to re start after a really hard drive.

That's because you'd vaporised the fuel out of the float bowl on the carburettor though, not due to turbo bearing cartridge heat soak.

Idling for a short period after a high load run won't do any harm, but changing your oil more often than the 18k intervals will be far more beneficial.

 

[RobinPJ]

Where is RUI ?

Still sulking.

 

[arorat]

That's because you'd vaporised the fuel out of the float bowl on the carburettor though, not due to turbo bearing cartridge heat soak.

Idling for a short period after a high load run won't do any harm, but changing your oil more often than the 18k intervals will be far more beneficial.

bgunn, a lot of guys would trust you to service their cars, where are you based btw ?

 

[bgunn]

bgunn, a lot of guys would trust you to service their cars, where are you based btw ?

Funny you should say that, I'm beginning to approach the idea of setting up shop and ultimately jacking in IT.

I'm based in NW London (Wembley)..

 

[arorat]

Funny you should say that, I'm beginning to approach the idea of setting up shop and ultimately jacking in IT.

I'm based in NW London (Wembley)..

off topic...

You come across as a knowledgeable and decent chap and hope you get some quick business to build up a profile. On a Merc Forum a few years back some one in a similar position to you did just that and became a mechanic to the lost Merc souls who were being ripped off. The challenge for mechanics is to be honest and fair all the time.

I am in Surbiton. Just had the 18k service, next oil change is foc from the fiat garage. I will happily use you after that.

 

[bgunn]

off topic...

You come across as a knowledgeable and decent chap and hope you get some quick business to build up a profile. On a Merc Forum a few years back some one in a similar position to you did just that and became a mechanic to the lost Merc souls who were being ripped off. The challenge for mechanics is to be honest and fair all the time.

I am in Surbiton. Just had the 18k service, next oil change is foc from the fiat garage. I will happily use you after that.

Thanks, that's what I'd like to model my business on. I don't want to take on the 'cheap' jobs or to try and compete with the chains in this regard..

 

[arorat]

Thanks, that's what I'd like to model my business on. I don't want to take on the 'cheap' jobs or to try and compete with the chains in this regard..

If it helps you could introduce yourself to a lot of people on 4th May at Auto Italia and show your suspension work - I don't go to these sort of events but can pop by and also see some Mercs on the premises... If anyone else is coming from FF/500 happy to meet up for a coffee.

https://www.fiatforum.com/events/319372-auto-italia-brooklands-2013-a-4.html?p=3196694

what am I saying and doing, Tony normally does this...

 

[bgunn]

That's if my suspension is done by then I've still got this Audi to finish and be rid of..

 

[The Twins]

That's because you'd vaporised the fuel out of the float bowl on the carburettor though, not due to turbo bearing cartridge heat soak.

Idling for a short period after a high load run won't do any harm, but changing your oil more often than the 18k intervals will be far more beneficial.

Yep agree. I change every 6k