Technical 1.3 multijet Doblo 2010

[peter ling]

Hi Everyone I'm new to this forum having now become a fiat owner. I have a fiat Doblo 263 1.3 muti-jet on a 2010 im told its the change over year and mine is the newer version but not sure. I'm not a mechanic but know my way around engines having done all my own mechanics since starting watching my late dad. To cut a long story short my van had an injector seal leak and my stepson offered to replace it for me, however after driving the van to his house it was the last time it would run correctly. We towed it home and done compression test and found no compression on one of the cylinders he done the injectors o. I think he must have been messy and dropped some carbon into the bore. I stripped the engine down and sure enough one of the valves was bent no damage to the rockers or camshaft. I have just finished de-coking the engine and now ready for assembly but I am confused on how to do valve timing. I purchase a locking tool and done some research online where it says the pistons all have to be mid point in the bore for the bottom end and both pins locked in the cam shaft. Where I am getting a bit lost is that there is obviously a ratio between crank and cam shaft due to the different size sprockets so how do you know when locking the cam you are not 180 degrees out?. I'm used to doing TDC on piston one when I have done cam belt but this is my first chain. I get the locking of the crank can only be in one place but as the cam will turn twice or more for one revolution of the crank I don't understand how I know if its locked in the correct place. Sorry if this is a bit long winded but I want to best describe my problem. Thank you in advance for any guidance you can offer.

 

[bugsymike]

HI bugsmike you were correct I had forgotten to tighten the clamp on the bottom hose so I did that and the noise went away but now with the engine all assembled it will start and idle at around 1000rpm with no problems (no engine ,management light on) but if I push down the accelerator nothing happens I can push it to the floor and the revs don't change most of the time, some times it may try to pick up but struggle. If I remove the vac pipe from the turbo obviously engine light comes on but it will run a lot better pick up and is derivable but sluggish. I took it about half a mile but then it gets really sluggish. I'm totally lost on what it can be, So again I'm looking to the experts for any advice / ideas.
Thanks
peter

Any chance something has got in the turbo pipes and partially blocked?
Not likely also, but anything on the exhaust side blocking it.
Years ago I recall a Austin that you could hold the accelerator on the floor nothing happened , then as you unscrewed the air cleaner wing nut the engine started to breath and revs shot up, similar with a Ford Anglia that the exhaust silencer baffle had blocked and as you slackened the ex manifold clamp the revs shot up again as it could breath. Nowadays blocked DPF or cat etc.

 

[peter ling]

I have done a bit more on it this morning, I changed the boost control sensor with no difference, I then took the plug of the turbo vac control solenoid and it made no difference to the running . I measured the voltage on the plug and it was 11.7 volts at idle. I got my some to rev the van a bit and the voltage didn't change. I'm assuming it should change to regulate the turbo. based on this to me it looks like I have a control issue with the turbo boost solenoid control signal, I'm trying to find a wiring diagram but workshop manuals for the Doblo seem to be very hard to find unless you can speak Italian. Do you know what signals I should be getting on the solenoid control as 11.7V seems to be a bit low for any condition as I assume it will be on or off but mine is constant.
Thanks
Peter

 

[bugsymike]

Can you take a pipe off the inlet manifold side of the turbo and rev the engine to see if you are getting boost, the pipe from turbo to manifold should be hard to block as roughly 20psi.
Keep your hands and any junk from getting sucked into the engine side of inlet.
Is yours a variable vane turbo or just a basic one, either way see if waste gate actuator moves. On my 2010 1.6 Doblo Maxi as soon as it is running the lever moves across, so if like that and you pull the vacuum pipe off you should see it flip back. I assume you have vacuum at the wastegate diaphragm?
Even with no turbo or pipe off it should still rev, though with no power.
Sorry I don't know any sensor voltages, maybe another Forum member can advise.

 

[The Panda Nut]

I think you may need to plug in to MES and get a diagnostic. It sounds like either a proxi algnment/ relearn is needed or wires not connected to the pedal. Sorry Im not much help Diagnotic would certainly be my 1st port of call. See if anything is showing

 

[peter ling]

OK so an update on the Doblo. have checked the fault codes and there are none showing other than the turbo circuit A out of range when I disconnect the VAC pipe from the turbo. But with the VAC pipe on it will clear down and don't come back. Tried to start it yesterday and it was really sluggish but after a while it did start to rev a bit. I run it for about 15 minutes to get the temperature up on the drive as the MOT has run out now. Then last night when to start and it starts revs up to about 2000 RPM and then dies almost like its fuel starvation on a petrol engine. Does this give anyone any more ideas of where to look.
Thanks Peter

 

[bugsymike]

Dirty fuel/blocked fuel filter?
With your diagnostics can you read current fuel pressure at the common rail etc?

 

[peter ling]

Dirty fuel/blocked fuel filter?
With your diagnostics can you read current fuel pressure at the common rail etc?

Hi I think so I will check and see what I have over the weekend
Thanks
Peter

 

[peter ling]

I have done some more testing, so at switch on the van sat at 1000 RPM but no response to the accelerator at all, after it warmed up a bit it started to respond to the peddle but sluggish to pick up, still not smelling great from the exhaust.
Readings taken at 1000 RPM some vary when engine speed increased .
Fuel rail pressure 326,000 Kpa
Command EGR 0% but when revved and foot off peddle it goes up to about 4.9% when revs drop again for a small time then back to zero..
Fuel level input 35.7%
Inlet manifold absolute pressure 98 Kpa
Intake air temp 20 degrees
Airflow from mass air flow sensor 4.9 g/s goes up when revved


then on another screen I have 'EGR monitor Bank 1'
Min limit 0.650
Max limit 1.350 but on another line it says status failed

Not sure if this means anything to you experts I understand the readings but don't really know what it is telling me

Thanks
Peter

 

[bugsymike]

I have done some more testing, so at switch on the van sat at 1000 RPM but no response to the accelerator at all, after it warmed up a bit it started to respond to the peddle but sluggish to pick up, still not smelling great from the exhaust.
Readings taken at 1000 RPM some vary when engine speed increased .
Fuel rail pressure 326,000 Kpa
Command EGR 0% but when revved and foot off peddle it goes up to about 4.9% when revs drop again for a small time then back to zero..
Fuel level input 35.7%
Inlet manifold absolute pressure 98 Kpa
Intake air temp 20 degrees
Airflow from mass air flow sensor 4.9 g/s goes up when revved


then on another screen I have 'EGR monitor Bank 1'
Min limit 0.650
Max limit 1.350 but on another line it says status failed

Not sure if this means anything to you experts I understand the readings but don't really know what it is telling me

Thanks
Peter

When you try to rev it what does it sound like at the exhaust, not blocked at all?

 

[peter ling]

When you try to rev it what does it sound like at the exhaust, not blocked at all?

No sounds normal but just really struggles to rev I have to sort of build the revs up by keep pushing the peddle a bit at a time until the revs finally get up and then it revs a bit better for a while ( but not like normal). Do you think I should take the EGR off again and see if I can see anything obvious I've done wrong as it was OK before I started this job. well I say OK some times we thought the turbo lagged you would accelerate away and then a second later the turbo cuts in. but no where near as bad as this I can't drive it at the minute as it has no power.
Thanks
Peter

 

[bugsymike]

If you are 100% happy the engine it's self is sound in wind and limb (good compression and timing etc) then you only have the ancillaries, so what is going in, as in full turbo boost and what is going out as in no blockages in DPF etc.
Is inlet pressure reading (Inlet manifold absolute pressure 98 Kpa) a max. figure maybe someone else can confirm , but it seems a bit low for a boost figure?

 

[peter ling]

Hi everyone, I have an update on my Doblo problems, so on Monday I thought I would have one more look at the van as it has been a taxed and insured shed for the past 3 months this was the last chance before listing as spares or repair for someone cleverer than me to sort if they so wished. I started the van and the normal thing , started ok but no revs. I pulled the vac pipe of the turbo and it would then respond to the throttle pedal but very sluggish. I then decided I would have another look down the back of the engine as up till now it has been all feel work down there I decided to take the air box of to try and get a better look. I did this and still with limited view I could see no problem but thought I would start it and have a look round with nit running. The van started and run better than it has since I started on this journey it revved up like it should. So I'm thinking mass air flow sensor could be faulty (although with my limited knowledge I thought it would have been smoking more) so I put the air box back with out connecting the MAF and still the engine run normally (with EML on) So then I connected the MAF and reset the EML and still it run normally. I then took it for a small drive as the MOT had now run out couldn't go on the road and still all OK. I then booked it in fore an MOT some 5 miles away thinking I would most likely not get there but it did and passed (even on emissions). So the only thing I can conclude is the small rubber pipe going from the air box to the turbo looked ok from the top but was not on correctly round the bottom section so air intake was slit between MAF reading and that leaking in via a miss fitted pipe (again I would have expected a lot more smoke) but I may never know what was going on. moving forward I just hope it keeps going, I think a few small journeys near home till I get confidence in it again. But I would like to again say a big thank you to all on here who have contributed to try and help me along the way. I will update if things change.

 

[peter ling]

Oh should just say I checked the (Inlet manifold absolute pressure 98 Kpa) on my wife's 1.6 HDI Peugeot 2008 and that was about the same.

 

[bugsymike]

Oh should just say I checked the (Inlet manifold absolute pressure 98 Kpa) on my wife's 1.6 HDI Peugeot 2008 and that was about the same.

I assume that is at idle, as around 98Kpa =14.7psi and is around Barometric pressure all around us at sea level, when warm a quick foot to the floor on the accelerator and off again should show a surge in boost pressure. Can you check on both vehicles?

 

[peter ling]

I assume that is at idle, as around 98Kpa =14.7psi and is around Barometric pressure all around us at sea level, when warm a quick foot to the floor on the accelerator and off again should show a surge in boost pressure. Can you check on both vehicles?

Hi Yes I will do and report back, we are in the middle of this storm at the minute so thankfully the winds were no were near as bad as predicted but may have to trade the Doblo in for a boat at this rate.

 

[bugsymike]

Hi Yes I will do and report back, we are in the middle of this storm at the minute so thankfully the winds were no were near as bad as predicted but may have to trade the Doblo in for a boat at this rate.

Here in Devon wind is just starting to rise and we had heavy rain during the night.