Technical 1.3 multijet Doblo 2010

[peter ling]

Hi Everyone I'm new to this forum having now become a fiat owner. I have a fiat Doblo 263 1.3 muti-jet on a 2010 im told its the change over year and mine is the newer version but not sure. I'm not a mechanic but know my way around engines having done all my own mechanics since starting watching my late dad. To cut a long story short my van had an injector seal leak and my stepson offered to replace it for me, however after driving the van to his house it was the last time it would run correctly. We towed it home and done compression test and found no compression on one of the cylinders he done the injectors o. I think he must have been messy and dropped some carbon into the bore. I stripped the engine down and sure enough one of the valves was bent no damage to the rockers or camshaft. I have just finished de-coking the engine and now ready for assembly but I am confused on how to do valve timing. I purchase a locking tool and done some research online where it says the pistons all have to be mid point in the bore for the bottom end and both pins locked in the cam shaft. Where I am getting a bit lost is that there is obviously a ratio between crank and cam shaft due to the different size sprockets so how do you know when locking the cam you are not 180 degrees out?. I'm used to doing TDC on piston one when I have done cam belt but this is my first chain. I get the locking of the crank can only be in one place but as the cam will turn twice or more for one revolution of the crank I don't understand how I know if its locked in the correct place. Sorry if this is a bit long winded but I want to best describe my problem. Thank you in advance for any guidance you can offer.

 

[bugsymike]

I did my daughters 06 1.3 Grande Punto under similar circumstances and bought the full locking kit, which holds both cams in correct position and if I remember correctly there was a flywheel locking pin also.
I appreciate as you say yours is the later version, so I don't know if relevant, crank pulley when loose is free wheeling , so a new reverse thread (left handed bolt correctly torqued is critical if you do not want to do the job twice with another set of bent valves.
No doubt there are other Forum members here with more current knowledge than me.
On the earlier ones timing chain was a weak point so a good quality kit correctly assembled was important.

 

[peter ling]

I did my daughters 06 1.3 Grande Punto under similar circumstances and bought the full locking kit, which holds both cams in correct position and if I remember correctly there was a flywheel locking pin also.
I appreciate as you say yours is the later version, so I don't know if relevant, crank pulley when loose is free wheeling , so a new reverse thread (left handed bolt correctly torqued is critical if you do not want to do the job twice with another set of bent valves.
No doubt there are other Forum members here with more current knowledge than me.
On the earlier ones timing chain was a weak point so a good quality kit correctly assembled was important.

Hi bugsmike
Thanks for the reply I have purchased a full kit with all gaskets, new chain and sprockets, also in the kit ate new head bolts and pully bolt as I think this is also a stretch bolt. I counted the teeth on the cam sprocket and the crank sprocket and they are a 2:1 ratio so I still just can't find anywhere that explains how you know if the cam is not 180 degrees out as From what I can see it will turn twice for ever one turn of the crankshaft. I was going to purchase a Haynes manual but doing some research on line to try and resolve my issue several people were saying the Haynes manual did not cover this point very well and they were still confussed?

 

[bugsymike]

Hi bugsmike
Thanks for the reply I have purchased a full kit with all gaskets, new chain and sprockets, also in the kit ate new head bolts and pully bolt as I think this is also a stretch bolt. I counted the teeth on the cam sprocket and the crank sprocket and they are a 2:1 ratio so I still just can't find anywhere that explains how you know if the cam is not 180 degrees out as From what I can see it will turn twice for ever one turn of the crankshaft. I was going to purchase a Haynes manual but doing some research on line to try and resolve my issue several people were saying the Haynes manual did not cover this point very well and they were still confussed?

I don't know how much the later engine differs, but if locating pin in flywheel and both locking pins in cam cover for inlet and exhaust cams, that should be OK and the high pressure pump doesn't need timing.
Does your timing kit look similar to this?
As with any valve timing , always turn engine several times by hand before using the starter to prevent damage.
The crank and cam sensors will tell the injectors when to fire via the ECU as long as cam and crank are timed using the timing tools.
Note I describe as timing and not locking tools, given the torque required on the crank pulley bolt, which is understanable as you don' want that coming loose and the valve timing moving!
On my older engine I had a 3ft. stilson holding the square flange and a large torque wrench to tighten the crank bolt correctly.
You can see the toy locking device for the crank in my photo is not to be relied on!

 

[peter ling]

I don't know how much the later engine differs, but if locating pin in flywheel and both locking pins in cam cover for inlet and exhaust cams, that should be OK and the high pressure pump doesn't need timing.
Does your timing kit look similar to this?
As with any valve timing , always turn engine several times by hand before using the starter to prevent damage.
The crank and cam sensors will tell the injectors when to fire via the ECU as long as cam and crank are timed using the timing tools.
Note I describe as timing and not locking tools, given the torque required on the crank pulley bolt, which is understanable as you don' want that coming loose and the valve timing moving!
On my older engine I had a 3ft. stilson holding the square flange and a large torque wrench to tighten the crank bolt correctly.
You can see the toy locking device for the crank in my photo is not to be relied on!

My kit just has the two sprung loaded pins for the cam shafts and the rod for the crank. when I took the bottom bolt off it was as you say really tight nothing I had would touch it so I welded up a square that went over the bottom pulley holder and wedges against the chassis. This held it firm so the impact from the electric impact gun I had could really shock it and even then I had to apply a little heat before it would move. It did look like some sort of thread lock on the bolt when it came out but my understanding is that these don't need it because they are stretch bolts. So basically you are saying it doesn't matter if I lock the cams at 0 or 180 degrees the the crank position as long as the crank and cams are locked and then a few turns by hand recheck locking pins align and go to go? That would make sense as I may have been looking for something that don't exist? I have watched a couple of YouTube videos and they all seem to skip the part I was looking for and say 'now the locking pins are in'. It sort of make sense now if it doesn't matter as long as they are in. Thanks for your responses you have been really helpful, I think it may be time to get the hands dirty again I have been waiting until i could find this detail out before starting reassembly.

 

[bugsymike]

As long as those spring loaded locking pins are correctly located in both cams and the flywheel pin is in also it should be correct, but as we said always when tight and set, turn engine by hand several revolutions just to be 100% sure nothing hitting, then if for some reason timing is wrong you know you haven't damaged anything. It's a rule I always followed.
That lock tool you made sounds ideal, the flimsy one in my cheap timing kit just broke immediately, but I have that big Stilson wrench that I wrapped around the square crank pulley holder and to undo the bolt I had the right Torx socket with an impact adaptor to my 3/4 drive long bar and even then I think I had to put a bit of tube over that. I prefer to use a controlled force when undoing stuff like that as I have heard of similar bolts snapping off inside the crank!
I do have several 3/4 and 1/2 inch air and 110volt impact wrenches if needed though.
If you have the engine series number etc. I can give you the tightening sequence from my 2012 AutoData manual for that bolt tomorrow, you don't want that bolt to fail.
Did you fit a good timing chain kit as that is a weak point , also when you had the injectors out , on my daughters car I recut the seats where the copper washers sit as due to the single nut holding two injectors down they have the habit of leaking and gunging up the injector hole so making it hard to extract them. I bought a slide hammer kit as well as the seat reamer and timing tools etc.

 

[peter ling]

Hi
Torque settings would be really handy as that's my next job to obtain settings for all the different parts. I have just looked and I think the engine number is 263A2000 Version 263ZXC1A A4. any help with this would also be appreciated.

 

[bugsymike]

Hi
Torque settings would be really handy as that's my next job to obtain settings for all the different parts. I have just looked and I think the engine number is 263A2000 Version 263ZXC1A A4. any help with this would also be appreciated.

The 263A2000 is the bit I needed, apologies for the photo quality and also I see it doesn't give torque for that bolt, it seems like yours is the 90hp version if you check at top of page , the111 number should be the tightening of that bolt, but is left blank. I went to the Vauxhall Corsa version of that engine which gives more detail as you can see in the later photos to compare. There is a number in a box for special notes, but that is only to tell you it is left hand thread.
Given the vagueness of the details I would advise you to corroborate elsewhere to be sure. The 2012 manual was the last I bought and along with the petrol version each year cost in excess of £100 per year prior to them going online even more expensive and time expired if you didn't renew each year and as I was due to retire I didn't "invest" in that.

 

[peter ling]

The 263A2000 is the bit I needed, apologies for the photo quality and also I see it doesn't give torque for that bolt, it seems like yours is the 90hp version if you check at top of page , the111 number should be the tightening of that bolt, but is left blank. I went to the Vauxhall Corsa version of that engine which gives more detail as you can see in the later photos to compare. There is a number in a box for special notes, but that is only to tell you it is left hand thread.
Given the vagueness of the details I would advise you to corroborate elsewhere to be sure. The 2012 manual was the last I bought and along with the petrol version each year cost in excess of £100 per year prior to them going online even more expensive and time expired if you didn't renew each year and as I was due to retire I didn't "invest" in that.

Once again thank you so much for all your help on this it really is much appreciated. I'm trying to get this back together as we use it to take our husky and Malamute to an off lead field as they are big dogs and need lots of exercise. Problem is I am having a hernia operation on the 8th Aug and really need the van by then as my wife struggles to walk them so this has been really helpful. I was planning on getting back on it today but I don't have anywhere undercover so doing it on the drive and here in Suffolk today it's been none stop heavy rain showers, typical.
But thanks again for all your help if I can ever repay the favour just let me know I am an electronics engineer by trade.

 

[bugsymike]

You are more than welcome, whilst my knowledge is more general from 50+ years in motor trade there is a lot of specific Fiat knowledge here on Forum

 

[varesecrazy]

Hi

The Panda section carries the bulk of our 1248cc mj knowledge

I and a couple of others have had the GrandePunto for a while..and added some info

The later configiration (@2011..) motors seem to be a bit of a mystery...

Not much info beyond Glowplugs

 

[bugsymike]

It does seem that all information is being restricted to Dealers and tuning/diagnostic companies that pay for access and then have to charge accordingly.
I suppose to a degree it has always been like that, many years ago I was trying to sort a small hesitation in a Ford Orion, I had a friend who had a Hometune franchise who had access to some Ford dealer notes regarding the issue, along the line of it was a known fault that best if customer was "fobbed off " as the cure was a new throttle body so they were not inclined to do it under warranty!

 

[peter ling]

Hi

The Panda section carries the bulk of our 1248cc mj knowledge

I and a couple of others have had the GrandePunto for a while..and added some info

The later configiration (@2011..) motors seem to be a bit of a mystery...

Not much info beyond Glowplugs

Hi Again, I'm back on my Doblo after having a hernia repair so set me back a bit but now Kits are heading back to Uni not so many cars to borrow. I think things are going ok but the prof will be when I try to start it. My question today is what thread is on the Cam sprocket bolt as I have read up both Crank and Cam shaft sprocket s are left hand tread. I have welded up a bar to hold the sprocket and applied so much pressure its bent the substantial size bar. But then recharged today I just checked the new bolt in the kit and its a normal tread for the Cam but left hand tread for the crank so worried I have been going the wrong way and before I put my gun on it I need to be sure I'm going the correct way so could any one advise if the CAM sprocket bolt is left or right hand tread.
Thanks
Should have said its a 1.3 multi jet engine 263ZXC1A A4
peter

 

[peter ling]

Hi every one, after a labor of love I have finally got my doblo 263 1.3 multi jet back together after replacing a valve that was bent when my step son offered to replace injector copper washer. It runs (not been on test drive yet) but I am getting fault code P2563.(Generic current turbocharger boost control position sensor A circuit range /performance ) It seems to me running on the drive to be running ok it starts well but cant find what is causing the code. it was not there before I stripped it down and when stripped down I tried to clean as much tar out of the parts as possible. to me it seems like qa sensor issues from the description but just wondered if any one better informed than me could help with any ideas
Thanks
Peter

 

[varesecrazy]

Hi every one, after a labor of love I have finally got my doblo 263 1.3 multi jet back together after replacing a valve that was bent when my step son offered to replace injector copper washer. It runs (not been on test drive yet) but I am getting fault code P2563.(Generic current turbocharger boost control position sensor A circuit range /performance ) It seems to me running on the drive to be running ok it starts well but cant find what is causing the code. it was not there before I stripped it down and when stripped down I tried to clean as much tar out of the parts as possible. to me it seems like qa sensor issues from the description but just wondered if any one better informed than me could help with any ideas
Thanks
Peter

Hi Peter,

the last entry here might give you hope

DPF Blocked/P2563 | FIAT Bravo 2 (2007+)

Hi all, new to Fiat ownership! My wife has wanted a Bravo for a long time so I picked up a 2010 1.6JTD Duelogic Dynamic. Being very rare here it was a long hunt and a case of take what you can get. The car is a one owner from new, with full service history and a new T-belt and water pump. As it...

www.fiatforum.com

 

[bugsymike]

That code can indicate the Variable Vane Turbo vanes are gummed up through too much low speed town use/short journeys etc.
One of my daughters had a 130Hp VW Golf TDI which went into limp mode due to that.
Fortunately I was able to free it off in situ using turbo cleaner spray and working the lever until full travel returned, along with performance.
Subsequently I got her to use the fuel additive in the tank regularly to keep it that way, as she was reluctant to use her right foot as much as required.

 

[peter ling]

Hi Peter,

the last entry here might give you hope

DPF Blocked/P2563 | FIAT Bravo 2 (2007+)

Hi all, new to Fiat ownership! My wife has wanted a Bravo for a long time so I picked up a 2010 1.6JTD Duelogic Dynamic. Being very rare here it was a long hunt and a case of take what you can get. The car is a one owner from new, with full service history and a new T-belt and water pump. As it...

www.fiatforum.com

Great thanks,

 

[peter ling]

Hi again every one so an update on the Doblo 263 1.3 van . So after having to replace a valve following some carbon (or something) getting in the cylinder whilst changing a injector seal. OI have the engine back together and as in the post above the engine management light was on. From the code reader it said it was a turbo pressure A circuit problem. As this was not a problem before I started I looked over the engine and found there to be no Vac at the turbo. traced this back to a small bore Vac pipe that had come of a T piece right and the back bottom of the engine. Put this back on and the van started ok engine light still on so I reved it a couple of times ( not silly but gently) The engine management light when off and the engine started make a strange noise. The only way I can describe it is, similar taking the air filter of a car and the noise from the inrush of air when accelerated. it does this then starts to die, I then get a noise like removing an airline off a compressor that AI think is coming from the inlet pipe to the air filter , then the first noise again and so on, there is also a horrible strong smell of diesel exhaust gas from the engine. If I remove the air box from the turbo it sort of runs a bit better. I am lost with this one and thinking it may be where I have to call it quits as its becoming an expensive shed and we need a van for our dogs. So just wondered before I start looking for another van if anyone may have any suggestions of what could cause this?
Thanks in advance
Peter

 

[bugsymike]

Any chance a hose has blown off the turbo to inlet or a intercooler split?

 

[peter ling]

HI bugsmike you were correct I had forgotten to tighten the clamp on the bottom hose so I did that and the noise went away but now with the engine all assembled it will start and idle at around 1000rpm with no problems (no engine ,management light on) but if I push down the accelerator nothing happens I can push it to the floor and the revs don't change most of the time, some times it may try to pick up but struggle. If I remove the vac pipe from the turbo obviously engine light comes on but it will run a lot better pick up and is derivable but sluggish. I took it about half a mile but then it gets really sluggish. I'm totally lost on what it can be, So again I'm looking to the experts for any advice / ideas.
Thanks
peter