General 1.2 8v overheating

[bugsymike]

Given the previous history you mentioned on old engine , I still lean towards the radiator.
By the way most modern cars use the heater matrix as a further heat sink, so if bypassed whilst it would not be the answer it may not be helping the situation.

 

[RicardoS]

Given the previous history you mentioned on old engine , I still lean towards the radiator.
By the way most modern cars use the heater matrix as a further heat sink, so if bypassed whilst it would not be the answer it may not be helping the situation.

Im leaned to the raditor as well but since the engine is under warrenty i want to make sure is not engine related issue.
Just did another compression test and cold engine at 26°C

1 132
2 135
3 135
4 135

Hot engine
1 131
2 135
3 135
4 132
My dial only counts in 5 so might be some error.

shouldn't It be a more noticeble difference between hot and cold?

Also using MES the fan turns on 1st time at 93°C after that always at 89/90°C.

The whining noise is from the water pump and the heater matrix is bypassed as there is rust residues under the dashboard. It came like that so i dont know if is leaking or was replaced

 

[bugsymike]

If performance of engine is acceptable and easy starting with no oil smoke I wouldn't worry too much about those compression readings for a second hand engine. Always nice to see a bit higher, but they are all fairly even.
Concerned about noisy water pump, but still think radiator direction as original engine faults point that way too.
If the S/H engine failed at a later date and was inspected it is possible if signs of overheating they could invalidate the warranty.
I knew of engine suppliers who fitted a heat sticker on the engine block and if removed or showing signs of excess heat they would invalidate any claim.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

What I would love is a J2 Allard with the Cadillac V8 side valve engine in race trim, unlikely to happen on old age pension and the skill to race it would be even more unlikely.

True "flies in your teeth" motoring - an iconic car. Back in my college days, when my friends and I would spend the weekend at Santa Pod under canvas scrounging cans of "Colt 45" from the USAF guys - You were "the man" if you were walking around with a can of Colt 45! Allard was another name for God! I once actually saw Sydney Allard's rail run - it was Britain's first true Slingshot rail and the subject of a complete restoration very recently. Plenty of stuff online about it if you search. Also his son, Allan, was heavily into drag racing and his Anglia Dragoon was a regular sight with it's shorrock blower. He also produced a small slingshot chassis which you could buy off the shelf with most being fitted with the 1500 Ford engine, again supercharged with a shorrock. Always a bit of a thrill to see it facing off against Harold Bull, the "king", in his immaculate supercharged rail "Stripduster". with it's tiny "A" series engine and beautifully executed engineering.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

If performance of engine is acceptable and easy starting with no oil smoke I wouldn't worry too much about those compression readings for a second hand engine. Always nice to see a bit higher, but they are all fairly even.

Yup, as far as compression readings are concerned, with a used engine, if the figures are reasonable - as these are - and fairly even, ie. not one dramatically lower than the others, then I'd be happy.

Im leaned to the raditor as well but since the engine is under warrenty i want to make sure is not engine related issue.
Just did another compression test and cold engine at 26°C

1 132
2 135
3 135
4 135

Hot engine
1 131
2 135
3 135
4 132
My dial only counts in 5 so might be some error.

shouldn't It be a more noticeble difference between hot and cold?

Also using MES the fan turns on 1st time at 93°C after that always at 89/90°C.

The whining noise is from the water pump and the heater matrix is bypassed as there is rust residues under the dashboard. It came like that so i dont know if is leaking or was replaced

The most likely reason why you might see higher figures with a hot engine would likely be because the ring gaps close up a little when hot and also the oil might be providing a better seal once the engine has been run. I wouldn't worry at all that there is little difference between your hot and cold figures, much more important, as Mike says, that it starts readily and doesn't burn oil - blue smoke. Compression readings are usually recommended to be done hot anyway.

Edit. PS. I'd also be doing some general observations, like, Does the oil light go out quickly after start up. No signs of big end knock. signs of "serious" oil leaks anywhere. You know what I'm talking about folks?

 

[The Panda Nut]

The all the hoses get hot and so does the radiator. The heater matrix for the moment is bypassed has i dont know if its bad or not.

Tomorrow i gonna swap the cap with my TD to test and going to do a compression test.

Th eproblem is that the fan cant cool it down fast enough while driving on higher revs. On idle or in low revs the temp gauge goes to the middle and the fan kicks in and it cools down. On high revs the temp gauge goes to middle and fan kicks in but temp keeps going up.
This leeds me to belive that either the headgasket is bad but no smoke or bubles in radiator or there is a leek somewhere and creates a air lock and the pump cant give enough flow ot the pump is bad

Bottom hose shouild be cooler than the top, markedly so. If they are the same temp or more or less the same then it too could suggest a blocked rad as the rad is not doing cooling as well as it should. The fan has nothing to do with cooling when the car is moving and should not switch on if the radiator is working. It should start soon after you slow down and stop if the engine remains running and sometimes even if the engine is off. There should be a slow and a fast fan speed too if the ballast resitor and temperature sensors are all working. WHne the car is moving above about 15mph ram air through the front should cool sufficiently for the fan to be off unless its exceptionally hot.

WHat happens if you put the heater fan on full blast and the heater on hot? Does this help reduce the temperature of the engine, it should do. If it does then it suggests blocked rad too as the heater is much smaller than the radiator.

 

[bugsymike]

As @The Panda Nut says, though as heater matrix disconnected on your vehicle the last bit of information not applicable in your case.

 

[The Panda Nut]

As @The Panda Nut says, though as heater matrix disconnected on your vehicle the last bit of information not applicable in your case.

Sorry jumping in with both feet facing backwards as usual... If the heater is disconnected then there is less water in the system, this wont help. MAy be waterless coolant would compensate if you can be sure its all as it should be ?

 

[bugsymike]

Sorry jumping in with both feet facing backwards as usual...

That's usually my job

 

[RicardoS]

Bottom hose shouild be cooler than the top, markedly so. If they are the same temp or more or less the same then it too could suggest a blocked rad as the rad is not doing cooling as well as it should. The fan has nothing to do with cooling when the car is moving and should not switch on if the radiator is working. It should start soon after you slow down and stop if the engine remains running and sometimes even if the engine is off. There should be a slow and a fast fan speed too if the ballast resitor and temperature sensors are all working. WHne the car is moving above about 15mph ram air through the front should cool sufficiently for the fan to be off unless its exceptionally hot.

WHat happens if you put the heater fan on full blast and the heater on hot? Does this help reduce the temperature of the engine, it should do. If it does then it suggests blocked rad too as the heater is much smaller than the radiator.

The fan only has 1 speed as i doesnt have a resistor only temp sensor. I know the fan shouldnt run when driving and before i bypassed the heater matrix i had hot air in vent and turning the heater on made no difference.

On idle the cooling system works fine. Bottom hose cooler than top hose fan turn on and off as it should but when driving the coolant temp keeps rising even with the fan on.

The new radiator will arrive later today

 

[bugsymike]

Fingers crossed it does the job .
If so it will be interesting to break the tank off the core of old radiator and confirm degree of blockage.
I had a Leyland van that always ran in the middle of the temp gauge and suddenly shot up to 3/4s whilst pulling up a hill, no other symptoms, but after fitting a new rad all was good and I pulled the old one apart , what had happened was the rubber gasket between parts of the rad had moved causing the hot water from engine to go straight out of the bottom hose outlet without going through the cooling tubes of the radiator.

 

[RicardoS]

New radiator in and the 1.2 radiator after all is bigger than the 1.1.
heater matrix connected.
Havent drived it yet but the engine temp is steady at 85°C and the fan kicks in just bellow the middle.

Ive attached photos of old radiator.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Well done! I hope it does the trick for you. It sounds encouraging so far.

 

[The Panda Nut]

I always use rainwater for screen washers. It lookes like using it for the radiator would also be good as that looks pretty scaled up.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

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I know there are arguments that "proper" distilled water is better? but I've been using this stuff for years now, mixed 50/50 with concentrate, and it seems to work well. Even cheaper if you have access to a Halfords trade card.

 

[RicardoS]

Just went for a drive and for now no overheating. When i turned off the engine It did drop about a glass of water from the cap but the level was above the max line.
Tomorrow morning i will top it up if needed and take another drive and if every thing good replace the water with coolant

 

[bugsymike]

Just went for a drive and for now no overheating. When i turned off the engine It did drop about a glass of water from the cap but the level was above the max line.
Tomorrow morning i will top it up if needed and take another drive and if every thing good replace the water with coolant

Glad that seems to be the answer, don't forget the antifreeze though for it's anti corrosion benefits.

 

[RicardoS]

Just went to check te level and it was higher than yesterday so went to bleed it again and there was air in the back bleed screw. Is this normal or could it be a small leak in the heater matrix?
Under the dash is all dry

 

[bugsymike]

Just went to check te level and it was higher than yesterday so went to bleed it again and there was air in the back bleed screw. Is this normal or could it be a small leak in the heater matrix?
Under the dash is all dry

I thought the heater was still bypassed?
If only a little air still trapped in system OK, but check regularly for a few days and keep watch for any other signs, loss of water/overheating etc. in case the time with engine running hot has caused any other damage.
By the way if the bleeder valve is higher than your coolant cap and you check it cold then it is possible for the air to be going in the bleeder valve causing the water in coolant tank to rise a little.
So always better to bleed air out when engine at normal temp after a run so the system has normal pressure and air in system is forced out of the valve.
If I was checking for air on a cold system I would use my coolant pressure tester to simulate normal coolant pressure on a hot engine, probably around one Bar (14.7psi) it may be written on the cap.
Check all around the engine and hoses to make sure no external leaks, do this after a run when engine coolant is under pressure.
Do not of course release pressure cap.
By the way are you happy the new radiator is controlling the water temp. better over all?
When checking water level always do it when engine cold, ideally overnight, then any expansion or contraction is accounted for.
Incidentally are you happy your radiator cap is holding the correct pressure?

 

[RicardoS]

I bypassed the heater for testing with old radiator. When i put the new radiator i reconnected the heater. I did open the bleeder without the cap in the radiator so the water may just have went back to the radiator.

When i test drive it yesterday it dint overheat so seems fine. The only probem with the radiator is that the fan shroud wont fit properly as its smaller. Its held in place with 2 screws and a piece of wire. The cap is from my punto TD and its about 1 year old but i will still by another one as the new radiator didnt came with one.

Im gonna put a piece of cardboard under the dash and drive it for a few days to see if it drips from the heater