Technical jtd turbocharger

sussexa · Feb 27, 2012

been requested for a tread on turbo strip down so here goes.

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/3412/turboremovalfeb2012017.jpg

Shadeyman · Feb 28, 2012

I took the liberty of adding your photo's to FF and re-posting them as I plan to strip my turbo soon and really dont want the images to disapear, hope thats ok?

Here's what came off(plus egr 90 deg elbow not in picture).

Turbo split from manifold.

Picture of turbine exducer(outlet)dry no oil.

Picture of turbine wet with oil(mine just removed).

Picture of compressor inducer(inlet).

Checking for play in bearing(just about contact housing, but pressurised oil film would centralise anyway).

The turbine housing can be split.

Close up of vnt ring.

Compressor housing split.

Then the chra can be split.
Under comp wheel you find.

Under that.

Turbine(oil piston seal still on).

Compressor wheel.

sussexa · Feb 28, 2012

thanks for that shadeyman, dont know why i struggle with gettin g pics loaded on here so much will load on imageshack in a minute or so will still be loading to f/f after 10 mins?

on a side note these pics are the jtdm turbo which are vnt2 design( slightly larger vnt vane height)
but i assume the previous jtd version of the garrett turbo should resemble internals to some degree(probably differences in thrust bearing design etc)
looking through pics i havnt got one of compressor oil seal but its the same as turbine oil seal, its a piston ring type seal on the bush sitting inside the back plate(picture titled under that shows bottom face of this bush seal is inside backplate.)

if there is a mod browsing please feel free to delete all posts other than shadeymans with pics in to tidy up thread.

i will strip this turbo with failed turbine seal soon just to see how and why its weeping past(assuming damaged/broke ring, or just worn ring/housing , or possible just baked on oil not letting piston ring open up and seal properly)

sussexa · Feb 28, 2012

this is where the turbo description comes from i.e. gt1749v
and also what may or can be changed to make a hybrid
49=compressor exducer = 49mm
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/811/turbo7772501stripdown20.jpg/
compressor inducer diameter whatevers spec'd( gives trim) . (48 trim)smaller = more responsive , (60 trim)larger = more flow top end (possibility surge low end)
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/20/turbo7772501stripdown20.jpg/
compressor wheel will also be spec'd for tip height e.g. 4.0mm
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/839/turbo7772501stripdown20.jpg/
and different wheels may vary in overall length and back design
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/821/turbo7772501newcompress.jpg/
this is comparison between a 49mm 34.6mm wheel and a 52mm 38.6mm wheel
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/638/turbo7772501newcompress.jpg/

the turbine side gives the gt17 usually called frame size, once again several 17 turbines will have different dimentions
this one has a 43mm inducer(largest diameter , inlet to tubine) and a 37.7mm exducer or outlet
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/259/turbo7772501stripdown20.jpg/
a smaller exducer will make more responsive but restrictive to flow top end, a larger exducer will make better flow top end but laggier bottom end.
your max bhp is usually restricted to the max flow from the turbine side wheel/housing
heres a 17 turbine with larger exducer (more flow but possibly more lag)
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/841/turbo7772501newturbine0.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/839/turbo7772501newturbine0.jpg/
also to consider are housing a/r values also limiting flow characteristics.

Shadeyman · Feb 28, 2012

Again, added to FF.

This is where the turbo description comes from i.e. gt1749v and also what may or can be changed to make a hybrid.

49=compressor exducer = 49mm

Compressor inducer diameter whatevers spec'd( gives trim).
(48 trim)smaller = more responsive , (60 trim)larger = more flow top end (possibility surge low end)

Compressor wheel will also be spec'd for tip height e.g. 4.0mm

A different wheels may vary in overall length and back design.

This is comparison between a 49mm 34.6mm wheel and a 52mm 38.6mm wheel

The turbine side gives the gt17 usually called frame size, once again several 17 turbines will have different dimentions.
This one has a 43mm inducer(largest diameter , inlet to tubine) and a 37.7mm exducer or outlet.

A smaller exducer will make more responsive but restrictive to flow top end, a larger exducer will make better flow top end but laggier bottom end.
Your max bhp is usually restricted to the max flow from the turbine side wheel/housing.
Heres a 17 turbine with larger exducer (more flow but possibly more lag).

Also to consider are housing a/r values also limiting flow characteristics.

sussexa · Mar 4, 2012

heres what will block up with sludge in oil and starve the bearing of oil(gotta be honest i thought the filter was built into the feed pipe)
http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/9789/turboremovalmarch2012un.jpg
http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/7918/turboremovalmarch201203.jpg
http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/7918/turboremovalmarch201203.jpg
and it looks like this is best bet for why mine has always smoked on start up
worn turbine oil seal
http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/7918/turboremovalmarch201203.jpg
turbine itself looks good(bit of bluing from high egt temps)
http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/9217/turboremovalmarch201202.jpg

Shadeyman · Mar 4, 2012

Added them to FF for you again and thanks for the extra photo's ..

Here's what will block up with sludge in oil and starve the bearing of oil(gotta be honest i thought the filter was built into the feed pipe).

And it looks like this is best bet for why mine has always smoked on start up
worn turbine oil seal.

The turbine itself looks good(bit of bluing from high egt temps).

sussexa · Jun 21, 2012

going through my files found a vid of vnt operation.
if i remember right i had vacuum cleaner pulling air through the turbine exit at a nominal flow and then operating the vnt actuator shows(hopefully) how the turbine can be sped up by the vanes redirecting flow to turbine thus increasing compressor speed and boost.
got no sound at the moment so not sure if audible and looks a bit blurry.

Muppet1 · Jun 25, 2012

Thanks for this guys, Im going to attempt to remove the turbo tomorrow and give it a good clean.
Any hints and tips on removing the turbo, Like step by step guide please.

Thanks

sussexa · Jun 25, 2012

I did turbo and manifold on and off complete so no idea about just turbo, it's a big job I'd say.
Then you've got new seals gaskets etc to refit.
I worked on a scrappy turbo then switched when finished rebuilding spare, I'd say being extra careful/slow you'd look at a day to remove and refit turbo plus whatever time is spent cleaning up bits, I think I spent 1/2 day just on that vnt vane ring alone.
You can clean vnt parts without disturbing main turbo chra, but once you've disturbed main shaft by undoing compressor nut , rebalancing is advised.
Ther is some special turbo cleaner I'd try first if I just had stuck vnt(inotec ? Spelling)
Basically I think you remove downpipe and blank Turbo outlet then pump in strong chemical cleaner that floods the turbine, housing, vnt ring etc and then try to work vnt to break free.then drain crap out and possibly oil change, incase it got past turbine seal)
The low ish Milage turbo I got from breakers actually had seized vnt, the vnt vane bottom faces had rusted/stuck to the turbine housing face if you look in pics you may see some pitting still in face after polishing up.(pic with turbine hosing and 3 vnt ring spacers sitting on there shows where vanes had corroded and stuck)
If this is the case I can't see the cleaner working.
Another close up of vnt actuator rod and clip vid

Muppet1 · Jun 25, 2012

Cheers, I shall probably take the whole lot off manifold and turbo, Looks an easier way to do it to be honest.

I'm not entirely sure how stuck it is but it needs to come off for me to look at/ be repaired any way.

Muppet1 · Jun 26, 2012

Right after an interesting day i have acheved not alot, apart from a cleaner turbo.
Took turbo off in about 1 and half hours which wasnt too bad as took rad fan off, Battery & Box, Air box etc just to get some room.
So turbo on floor and proceeded to remove intake housing which was oily but not too grungey.

So i then proceeded to take of the exhaust side and well.............

So i cleaned up the exhaust side and it looked like this,

Sorry i dont know what happend to the other picture of the ring that controls the vanes but it looked almost as clean as this bit.
Inlet side cleaned,

And all bolted back together Cleaner than before at least inside,

But the saga continues..................................

Shadeyman · Jun 26, 2012

That deffinately needed cleaning ...

Muppet1 said:
But the saga continues..................................

So you didn't get it bolted back on and tested?

sussexa · Jun 26, 2012

Might Just be the pic but the second pic from bottom comp housing, looks scored as if comp wheel has been touching?
How much play is in shaft, should be next to none axially (push/pull on wheels I'd expect .01mm new to .2mm quite worn(mine was .12mm 40,000 miles high boost)
Radially I think with pushing comp wheel one way and pulling turbine wheel the other to maximise play I had about .3mm ( remember clearance is only 0.5mm till wheel touches)new main bearing had similar play.
1st pic is clogged with enough soot to jam vnt control ring, could you rotate it by hand.

Muppet1 · Jun 26, 2012

Oh yes all bolted together and on the car and running great...... The only thing is still no boost.
One word of warning to all that might attempt this,

The oil feed pipe is a right git to get back together so be warned

Thing is the vanes and all that move nice and smoothly, But i just couldn't move the actuator much once it was on and connected.

Tried with my working boost valve and the actuator is still not moving much, Nowhere near the one in the vid so I still have a problem somewhere.
I'm sure the pipes are OK but am going to tomorrow remove my boost valve and pipe work from the box at the back of the engine to valve to actuator to see if that makes a difference.
If that doesn't then i will remove my actuator from my stilo and put on the new one as i know mines OK.

And i still don't have any error codes either even though I have no boost!!!!!!!!!!!!

Muppet1 · Jun 26, 2012

Sussex,
Think that's just the pic. It certainly didn't look like that in real life. Um-mm I didn't pull the shaft but I did sort of wiggle it and there was a slight movement but not enough to worry about I hope. I certainly don't think it touches the housing at all.
I believe the bloke I bought the car from had a new central part to the turbo a couple of years ago and I don't think there is any wear in it to be worried about.

I still think now that the fault is with the actuator.

Shadeyman · Jun 26, 2012

Muppet1 said:
Sussex,
Think that's just the pic. It certainly didn't look like that in real life. Um-mm I didn't pull the shaft but I did sort of wiggle it and there was a slight movement but not enough to worry about I hope. I certainly don't think it touches the housing at all.
I believe the bloke I bought the car from had a new central part to the turbo a couple of years ago and I don't think there is any wear in it to be worried about.

I still think now that the fault is with the actuator.

If the shaft has been replaced perhaps the wear marks are from when the previous shaft failed?

Surely you can rig something up to test the actuator, old cooking syringe for example?

Muppet1 · Jun 26, 2012

Bugger, Just thought about the MAP which hadn't even crossed my mind.

Arggggggggggggggg I bet its full of crap!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's your fault Stu, Posting about that on the other thread.

Muppet1 · Jun 26, 2012

Well I did try the syringe but I broke it before I could really try it. I will try the hoover tomorrow if its dry. That should have enough suck should it not????

Did try the hoover yesterday and that wouldn't shift it, So i wonder if it will tomorrow.

Shadeyman · Jun 26, 2012

Muppet1 said:
Bugger, Just thought about the MAP which hadn't even crossed my mind.

Arggggggggggggggg I bet its full of crap!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's your fault Stu, Posting about that on the other thread.

This is a bit like when the missus and I go out and she looses her keys, or money, or shoe, its always my fault ...

BTW I have a spare JTD MAP Sensor, I'll pop it in the boot of the car ready for Saturday ..

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