I know this has been covered several times, but I can't find the definitive answer. I need a new cluster, and got quoted £1110 GBP for a new one from FIAT - with discount. I can source used clusters from Sweden and Denmark, as Stilos are rare in Norway. Used clusters go for around £150 GBP, so it's okay. I need the km version.

But what happens if I install this Abarth version in the 1.6:


Here's a picture of the 1.6 version cluster. See the km/h don't line up. 220 is around the 240 mark on the Abarth version.


Will the cluster understand the speed? Let's imagine I drive in 240 on the Abarth cluster. Would the 1-6 cluster only show 210? I will always be driving too slow then.

i did the same, no problem after Proxy alignment - after P.A. the configuration of the original cluster is transferred to the Abarth cluster.
If you need to adjust the mileage downward because the Abarth has too high mileage i could sort that for you if you send the cluster to the Netherlands.
Some original Abarth options will disappear like the oil gauges or reversing sensor message.

as agreed on the phone i will test the difference between speed indication of both clusters by sending a fixed CAN speed message for 120 and 240 km to both clusters and check the positions of the pointers on the speedo dials.
Will let you know a.s.a.p.

i just tested the difference between the two clusters by sending a 200 km/hr message on the CAN-bus - both clusters indicate the same speed (about 211/212 km including the safety margin) but because both clusters have different locations for the speed marks the needles are not on the same spot.

So without a Proxy Alignment both clusters indicate the correct speed, i assume after Proxying the Abarth cluster with the Stilo 1.6 configuration it will be recognised as a normal cluster and move the needle further to indicate the speed of the standard dial , thus indicating a too high speed on the Abarth dial.
there are several options in this case;

leave the Abarth cluster as it is without Proxy and accept the blinking of the mileage display;
Do a Proxy alignment and fit other non-Abarth dials (standard black or white aftermarket)
Fit a standard cluster with original dials or with white aftermarket dials for a better look.

But does it exist alternate dials (with other positions of the "speed") for this particular cluster? It has an LCD screen on the speed dial.

I'm not really sure if the proxy alignment really rewrites the whole firmware of the cluster, as it is completely digital, there should be a separate chip, read-only, that holds the position of the needle in regards to the speed.

I believe my theory is correct because if the whole firmware would be rewritten, than nobody could install other gauges as they would simply stop working.

Anyway, if I'm wrong, just buy a standard white dial kit, cut the hole in the middle where the display is, and put it in. I know these are uk kits, but it's worth giving them a ring to ask if they have the European type. You need to also check if all the lights go in the same place.

vladof said:

Anyway, if I'm wrong, just buy a standard white dial kit, cut the hole in the middle where the display is, and put it in. I know these are uk kits, but it's worth giving them a ring to ask if they have the European type. You need to also check if all the lights go in the same place.

Click to expand...

I have seen these dials, and they seem to be based on the Abarth "specter" (word problem there...) 220 km/h is in the place of my 200, and 90 km/h seems to be in the place of my 80 km/h. Now I am actually questioning the Lockwood kits accuracy - everyone that buys these kits will be driving way to slow - of not driving an Abarth, and then it's a bit pointless as they are white already.

I really don't mind it's black, so I can perhaps swap my OEM black dials over to the white Abarth one. What I want, is the color display.

Or if it has different processing of the speed, it will just work - as you mention.

Hello Morten,

i just did the GPS test with following results:

speed Birba dial / (real)speed GPS / aprox. speed on Abarth dial (w.1.6 Proxy )
(pos. as black dial)

110 km 111 km +/- 115 km
120 121 +/- 127
140 142 +/- 150
150 152 +/- 160

so i'm driving even faster than my Birba dial in my Proxied Abarth cluster shows me , the values on the actual Abarth dials would suit me better because of the safety margin.
I think the difference between real/GPS speed and the indicated speed on the Abarth dial (after Proxy) would be very acceptable , don't you think?
Personally i would never fit the dull black dials , the dashboard looks much better with the white dials, all the rest is black already...

For your information - the needled can be turned and pulled anti-clockwise at the same time to remove them - the dials are just held in place by some locating tabs and the front part of the cluster.
To adjust the needles to their correct location - turn and push them on anti-clockwise in small steps, check with ignition on for their correct zero-position.
If turned too far just rotate further anticlockwise until you're back to your wanted position.
Put a bit of celiber (right word??from your mouth) in the axle opening of the needle to make twisting easier, it will evaporate quickly.

@ Vladov - i'm sure the firmware is not rewritten during Proxy Alignment, only the configuration of the car is stored by the nodes needing that information and i think the microprocessor of the cluster will use this information to send the right amount of steps to the stepper motors depending of the car type / dial.
It's not difficult to store information for several dial speeds inside the microprocessor, it just has to know which one to use...

Very interresting. The difference between your GPS and the Abarth dial (in your proxy aligned 1.6) are lesser than my GPS and 1.6 dial today. I would think the gap would increase. I have about 7% abberancy, where you have about 5% even after the proxy. It should work then, but this means it has to be another hardware in there calculating the needle position. Just trying to use logic here. Or am I completely out on the field?

It looks like Birba dials are model specific and very accurate, but Lockwood dials seem only to cover the Abarth dial (from kmph to mph), and will make all other models drive too slow.

MW.

i think the microprocessor in the cluster has stored the stepper motor values for all models / clusters , the Proxy alignment tells it which table to use for this type of car/dial. (so XX steps for XX speed for XX model/cluster)
The Birba Dials are available for all different dial scaling - i just had to make the rectangular cut-outs for the two displays.
As far as i can judge it now i could have fit Abarth dials without any problem, it seems speed indication + safety margin are adapted after Proxy Alignment.

Great information. If I sum this up, it looks like everything will work perfectly with the proxy alignment and no dial change.

Eventually:

Birba dials will work for all clusters except Abarth. Birba dials on an Abarth cluster will make the shown speed very accurate as it removes the safety-margin, or even show a bit extra. Birba don't make for the Abarth.

Lockwood kits will show too high speed (driving too slow) if mounted on a non-Abarth cluster, but correct speed on an Abarth cluster if the idea is just to convert a kmph cluster to mph.

Just to make everything clear so I'm sure I understand.

The proxy alignment will store information in regards to the steps in the needle position. Usually these steps are stored as values from 1 to 356 or so on, etc. This means that the proxy alignment does control this feature and will make the 250 km/h margin look like 230?

For example, 200 km/h would have a sent value by the microprocessor of 320, where in the abarth dials this value would be 300, meaning the speedo would always show a lower speed that varies from 1 to 20 km/h if you would just do the proxy alignment and let it be?

You're saying speed margins are adapted after proxy alignment whereas if they work the same they actually don't change and simply work the same.

The Proxy alignment only tells all nodes what the configuration of the car is (wheel size, engine, alarm, esp etc.) - the logic of converting this information to the proper calculation or actions is stored within the program of the microprocessor itself.
So if the processor is told there is a 1.6 cluster fitted (with other dial range than the Abarth) by means of a Proxy Alignment it apparently uses another steps calculation for the stepper motor for indicating a certain speed.
The can message for the car speed is the same for all Stilo's (i can generate it on the bench for all speeds) - the microprocessor determines how many steps are needed to indicate the speed (+ margin) for the dial it expects to be fitted.

EDIT/
i just rechecked the whole story -
because the indicated speed on my Proxied Abarth cluster with Birba 1.6 dials indicate a speed which is even slightly under the GPS speed it means the speed indication would have been o.k. with the original Abarth dials.
So by putting the Birba dials in i lost my safety margin , when i drive 120 km/hr this actually is 121 km (GPS speed) , with an Abarth dial this would have been 127 km which again contains the build-in safety-margin.
Conclusion - the Abarth cluster shows the correct speed for all models , the Proxy only alters the rest of the configuration (oil gauges, parking sensors etc.)
So there is no need to put other dials in the cluster for non-Abarth Stilo's , i did so because i used a UK Abarth cluster with Miles scaling which had to be replaced.
I'm sorry for the confusion, sometimes you just need some more time to understand how things work....

i just checked on the Birba site - you can use these dials for the 1.8 Stilo which have the correct scaling for the Abarth cluster (max. indicated range 260 km instead of 255 km - 65 euro).
You just have to make the cut-outs for the two rectangular displays.
Maybe i will order them to get my safety margin back....

http://www.birba.com/shop/customer/product.php?productid=648&cat=70&page=1

Thank you for the reply, that was the answer I was looking for.

Update.

I have just received my new (used) Abarth cluster, and it worked 100% immediately. Being an expert in cluster removal, I used 4 minutes (screws not counted there) to remove the old one and insert the new one.

Symptoms right now:
- Cluster dings parking sensor fault (I don't have them).
- Cluster dings loose connection (unknown, probably due to parking sensors).
- Not possible to adjust time / date (menu doesn't have the option - strange).
- Oil pressure / temp / level (can't remember) doesn't work (don't have these sensors).
- Consumption calculating is completely bananas, using more petrol downhill than uphill.
- Mileage blinks constantly.

Speed compared to GPS (not executed Proxy yet):
GPS 94 / Speedo 100 km/h
GPS 75 / Speedo 80 km/h
These readings are 100% the same as the old cluster with different speed positions.

Well, off to Proxy Alignment then...

Hello Morten,

i guess most of these symptoms will disappear after a proxy alignment - just keep in mind that FES Proxi behaves different from Examiner Proxi:

Examiner only copies the (fixed) configuration file of the body computer to the other nodes which need a Proxi Alignment-
FES first rewrites the configuration file of the bodycomputer if it detects new or missing nodes (removed radio, added Connect Nav, added steering wheel node etc), then copies this modified file to the other nodes which need a P.A.
So when you have added a Connect Nav FES Proxi will remove most setting options from the My Car button panel , you will have to use the Connect Nav to change these settings in the future.
If you want to keep all button settings you have to add the 4 sec. delay circuit between the switched power line before the Proxy Alignment to prevent the CN+ from being detected as an extra node.
Good luck with your new cluster !

yellowstilo said:

So when you have added a Connect Nav FES Proxi will remove most setting options from the My Car button panel , you will have to use the Connect Nav to change these settings in the future.

Click to expand...

That is probably the explanation why I can't adjust time/date, as it has come from a car with the CN+.

yellowstilo said:

If you want to keep all button settings you have to add the 4 sec. delay circuit between the switched power line before the Proxy Alignment to prevent the CN+ from being detected as an extra node.
Good luck with your new cluster !

Click to expand...

I'm heading out now with my good old Dell M75 and the Gendan bundle to sort it out. Will do a km/h comparison to the GPS aswell afterwards.

Sorry to resurrect this old thread, but did you finally manage to get the Abarth clusters working? I mean the one with the coloured display? My temp gauge needle is stuck and I decided to disassemble the 'motor' that's moving it and it there are some tiny little cogs that I cannot put back together Anyways, I just purchased an abarth dash (it was cheaper than the normal ones ) and wanted to ask if you managed to do that. Perhaps I should have asked before purchasing it

Thanks in advance

neonglow said:

Sorry to resurrect this old thread, but did you finally manage to get the Abarth clusters working?

Click to expand...

Staight swap. Still working 100%. You have to do a proxy alignment, as the Abarth cluster has other BC information stored - like a partial fragmented menu (due to CN+), additional sensors like oil pressure etc. Simple task with FiatECUScan.

After a week after the install, the LCD panel or backlight didn't respond to the "brightness button" on the dash. I pulled the cluster fuse and reinserted it (also in the dash in front of the BC). Been fine since.