Hi

I got my first Punto 2 months ago after having a very very reliable old nissan micra from 1996!!!

My thinking was get a newer car with half the mileage and less problems...BIG MISTAKE!

It has always had the engine failure light flash on when Im on the motorway doing around 70mph, it tends to come on when I ease of the accelaration and then goes off when I speed up again. I have had it looked at by 3 garages, 2 have said it comes up with "unkown fault" and the fiat garage said it was burnt out wires, charged me £300 and sent me on my way.

However it started doing it again now, last week I was at some traffic lights and the steering wheel light came on, my steering was very heavy so power steering had stopped working, I puller over turned the engine off then on again and it was fine and has been since! Today though on my way to work flashing engine management comes on again so I do my usual trick to try and get it off by speeding up BUT this time very loud noise and light would not come off! Had to pull in and turn engine on and off then all better....Any Ideas what this is? I dont want to go back to garage to be told unknown fault and the fiat dealers charge a fortune for diagnostics

Thanks

Becki

Hi, did they say where the burnt out wires are?

where abouts are you located, maybe a member on here will be willing to have a look for you?

Steering wheel light is a separate issue to the engine management light, this is a common problem on the fiat punto.. eigther a steering column failure or steering control module failure usually. only solution is a reconditioned unit.

What kind of noise it it make? where abouts did it come from roughtly? inside the car? or outside?

Well I took it to the fiat garage because of the engine failure light but the morning i took it in when I came to turn on the fans the side lights came on and when I tried to turn the lights on the fans came on!!!! So when the dealer ran the diagnostic they found that there were burnt out wires...thats all he told me, I didnt really care at that point because it was warrentied for the month and the people i got it from were paying!

I called the RAC about the Sterring wheel thing and he tried to run a diagnostic on the car but his lil machine wouldnt work, which he said could point to a electrical fault with my car as he rarely had problems with the machine.

Today the noise was kinda like I was going too fast in a low gear, the rev count was normal though and I was in 5th going around 65mph. When I sped up it became louder and when I slowed down it stopped, the light was not flashing stable though it was skipping beats and sometimes staying on for a few seconds before flashing again. The noise was def from inside the engine but cant specify more than that as I pulled over pretty fast. Im from around Manchester way near to Trafford Centre.

Thanks

Hi, wouldnt the diagnostics connect at all? if that was the case id say your car needs another body computer then as there is no wired connections between the diagnostic machine and the body computer, sometimes these can be repaired though. if its not this, and just that the diagnostics couldnt connect to the engine module etc, then id say them burnt wires are probably back to haunt you and might of caused more damage to the wiring than first seemed... problem with burnt wiring as well is if they short out they can damage the electronics in the car.

but if it was just the steering column ECU he couldnt connect to then you would need another steering column .. reconditioned ones are available though with 2 year warrantys and cheaper than new!

was he any more specific than just the diagnostic machine wasnt working?

Hard to be more specific without actually having a look.

when the engine light comes on.. does the engine run smoothly? or does it run a bit rough? any loss of power?

lol 1 thing ive learnt recently though about puntos is they are far from maintenance free and simple.. im sure some people have had a different experience.

but in my case for a friend ive had to completely pull out the dashboard and interior, replace all the wiring behind the dashboard, heater control wiring, wiring under the seats and bonnet, wiring for the cooling fan lol.. then today i found out the ABS unit is beyond repair, and i still dont know if the body computer is questionable. Speedo doesnt work, city button doesnt work lol.

but in your case, I will try to help as will other members im sure but we can only provide guesses as to the problem, and to fix would still require somebody with a mechanical knowlegde of a car... its a difficult problem to determine because it seems quite extensive, it could be wiring burnt again, bad earthing/connections, electronic modules eg, engine management, body computer, steering ecu. Might be a member near to you who might be abel to offer some help and have a look at the car. Id offer but Im not nearby lol so unfortunately i can only help based on the information you provide.. but any information you have that can help and we will all try to help as best as we can.

It's a bit much to condemn the steering column or Body Computer simply because a generic code reader couldn't read the errors. Who's to say he wasn't trying to get in under the wrong vehicle? It could be a CAN issue or even a simple blown fuse for the PAS.

The sidelight/heater fan problem you had sounds like the common poor earth connection issue for the heater fan which has been discussed on here before and I wouldn't have thought it would effect engine running.

The engine warning lamp flashing indicates a misfire which may cause damage to the Cat. Seeing as it occurs only at high speed suggests to me the vehicle has possibly had a recent cambelt change without the phonic wheel learn being reset afterwards?

If the noise is related to engine speed, then it should occur in every gear at that particular rev-point and usually while stationary too. Otherwise it points to transmission/wheel bearing/ etc.

Wasnt condemning the body computer/steering ecu.

but it is a known problem with the steering columns to fail... but this issue is separate to the engine problem.

Body computer, when you connect with a generic scanner as long as the car is OBDII Compliant the car its connected to shouldnt matter, it will give a basic readout, and the OBDII connector is built straight into the body computer, there is no wires connecting it. So it is a possibility, although as said previously it is more likely to be a wiring issue. Ive never had to select a vehicle yet when connecting diagnostic equipment, as OBDII is a standardised communication standard for basic diagnostics.

Dont think the noise is a wheel bearing issue, more likely to of been the misfiring creating the sound. Simply because she said she turned it off, and when she turned it back on.. noise had gone.

Wheel/transmission noises would of stayed constant.

beckime21 said:

Hi
My thinking was get a newer car with half the mileage and less problems...BIG MISTAKE!

It has always had the engine failure light flash on

Any Ideas what this is? I dont want to go back to garage to be told unknown fault and the fiat dealers charge a fortune for diagnostics

Click to expand...

1) Fiat are actually one of the cheaper dealerships for charges
2) Why buy a car with faults on it, EM warning light flashing could be potentially expensive. Did anyone check the car over
3) A roadside recovery man could never give the same time/detaile diagnostic than a dealer could with dedicated equipment.

RB2009 said:

but it is a known problem with the steering columns to fail

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common mis-conception (normally arising from forums like this) actually. I wonder how many columns have been in-correctly changed due to poor connections at EPS ECU or simply require VSS wiring mod.....loads!

RB2009 said:

Hi, wouldnt the diagnostics connect at all?
was he any more specific than just the diagnostic machine wasnt working?


when the engine light comes on.. does the engine run smoothly? or does it run a bit rough? any loss of power?


.

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Hey when I went to the nationwide, it came up with a fault but said unknown fault so I then went to the Fiat garage and they said the burnt out wires and I thought it was fixed.

When the engine light comes on it its when in going at around 70mph and it flashes when I ease of the accelation it usually stays exactly the same no difference to the drive at all and it goes off when i accelerate again. Apart from yesterday when it made a loud noise but still seemed fine to drive, I have since done around 30 - 40 miles and its running fine again!

T14086 said:

1) Fiat are actually one of the cheaper dealerships for charges
2) Why buy a car with faults on it, EM warning light flashing could be potentially expensive. Did anyone check the car over
3) A roadside recovery man could never give the same time/detaile diagnostic than a dealer could with dedicated equipment.




!

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1. Fiat charged me £90 for diagnostic and nationwide £50, like i said though my old car didnt have all this electrical mumbo jumbo and ran perfectly until a ripe old age of 12! So Im not used to the prices and things
2. Im a 22 year old woman and went car shopping alone so I admit to not havig had anyone check it over, the guy said it had undergone a 275 point inspection, when I say the fault has always been on it i mean from around 2 days after buying the car, It was under gurantee still so I wasnt worried and fiat said it had been fixed.
3. I called the RAC Man after the power steering failed as I drive around 40-50miles per day mostly on motorways I was worried, stranded and wanted him to check.

RB2009 said:

Wasnt condemning the body computer/steering ecu.

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Really? Dunno where I got that from your post...

RB2009 said:

Hi, wouldnt the diagnostics connect at all? if that was the case id say your car needs another body computer....
but if it was just the steering column ECU he couldnt connect to then you would need another steering column ...

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Generic code readers will read the standardized codes, and many Tech's I know have these Scanners for use on other vehicles, but we've tested systems from Sealey, Mac, etc against Fiat's Examiner and found that not all the errors are displayed (even some basic Lambda sensor faults do not show up).

Many more expensive systems require that you input the vehicle details for manufacturer specific codes. I'm saying maybe the RAC guy entered the vehicle as a '05 Punto (Grande Punto) which uses a different PAS ECU and therefore wouldn't communicate.

beckime21 said:

Hey when I went to the nationwide, it came up with a fault but said unknown fault so I then went to the Fiat garage and they said the burnt out wires and I thought it was fixed.

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Did you mention the engine light flashing, or just the Heater fan/light issue?

I can't see why your Fiat garage failed to pick-up the engine fault unless Nationwide decided to delete the error in a misguided attempt to 'fix' the fault, therefore leaving the Fiat Tech with nothing to go by until the light comes back-on.

beckime21 said:

1. Fiat charged me £90 for diagnostic and nationwide £50, like i said though my old car didnt have all this electrical mumbo jumbo and ran perfectly until a ripe old age of 12! So Im not used to the prices and things

cheapest is not always the best though...take the socks my wife buys me...last a few days then they commit suicide on me!

Unfortunally cars have to progress because of customer or legal demands, this mumbo jumbo is needed.

2. Im a 22 year old woman and went car shopping alone so I admit to not havig had anyone check it over, the guy said it had undergone a 275 point inspection, when I say the fault has always been on it i mean from around 2 days after buying the car, It was under gurantee still so I wasnt worried and fiat said it had been fixed.

You should of taken it back, easy to say in hindsight I know, however I would be interested to know what was exactly involved in this 275 point inspection?


3. I called the RAC Man after the power steering failed as I drive around 40-50miles per day mostly on motorways I was worried, stranded and wanted him to check.

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With due respect to patrol men, they are allocated a small time to fix then either uplift or go to next job. He probably thought it just needs a column etc so didn't go too in depth.

You mention guarantee...from who/where?

Also Fiat (well garage not Fiat themselves) said it was fixed (what was fixed?) however if its not take it back...labour is warranteed aswell

D4nny8oy said:

Did you mention the engine light flashing, or just the Heater fan/light issue?

I can't see why your Fiat garage failed to pick-up the engine fault unless Nationwide decided to delete the error in a misguided attempt to 'fix' the fault, therefore leaving the Fiat Tech with nothing to go by until the light comes back-on.

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Yeah I did mention it thats what it was booked in for but the day Itook it the headlight/fan thing started! I actually do remember the nationwide guy saying something about deleating it....???

T14086 said:

With due respect to patrol men, they are allocated a small time to fix then either uplift or go to next job. He probably thought it just needs a column etc so didn't go too in depth.

You mention guarantee...from who/where?

Also Fiat (well garage not Fiat themselves) said it was fixed (what was fixed?) however if its not take it back...labour is warranteed aswell

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Im the first to admit i was very naive and have learnt my lesson! Just want to know whats best to do now, I did have a one month warrenty thing with garage i got the car from so they paid for the initial time it went to the fiat garage.

I have now purchased a fairly good warrently plan from Tesco so Im hoping they will cover me for any major problems, I just wanted a clue? lol

aftermarket warranties etc are pretty basic & often dont cover electrical items, however back to the original topic....your not naive, we cant know everything about everything but I would of liked to see the garage take a more sympathetic view. First off where in UK are you (rough location)?

T14086 said:

aftermarket warranties etc are pretty basic & often dont cover electrical items, however back to the original topic....your not naive, we cant know everything about everything but I would of liked to see the garage take a more sympathetic view. First off where in UK are you (rough location)?

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I travel all around Derbyshire, Manchester, trafford area and am based at Manchester Airport most of the time and will soon be travelling to Ormskirk everyday!!!!

surely there must be loads of dealerships or good garages to choose from there?

yeah I guess can anyone reccommend somewhere? Im so worried about being ripped off now lost all trust my judgement!!!!!

I am sorry to hear about all your problems, I really hope you get it sorted x

Can any staff of any dealerships help this person out?

As Danny said earlier what has been done to the car already? I',m a bit confused aswell