Hi..was alvaysy wondering.. Are these 2 engines the same.. If so.. What did Fiat do, to gain the extra 5 Hp in the panda, compared to the 95in a Punto or Idea.. Just software.. Or any "real"changes?

No idea, but it has the same quoted power output (99bhp) when fitted to the Fiat 500.

magijamarko said:

Hi..was alvaysy wondering.. Are these 2 engines the same.. If so.. What did Fiat do, to gain the extra 5 Hp in the panda, compared to the 95in a Punto or Idea.. Just software.. Or any "real"changes?

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Many of the actual 100HP are 95PS.... it depends on the VIN..
To be honest, no one will notice the difference between 95 and 100 - also, that is PS - flywheel, with no ancilliaries.

Aha.. So no changing ecu, chip, induction.. Same engine, same HP.. Thank you. For the input..
M

magijamarko said:

Aha.. So no changing ecu, chip, induction.. Same engine, same HP.. Thank you. For the input..
M

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No, that should be fine, it possibly is a slight change in the map or cam profiles - but nothing to bother about.
I am putting a 1.4 8V (from Grande Punto) in my panda, but for that I am using the standard 1.2 ecu. - it will easily fuel it. but thats about 75 / 77 HP PS.
On these closed loop systems it is amazing how much they can adapt. I wouldnt be surprised if it could cope with the 16V 1.4 .... best to use the right ecu though - providing it links to everything else in the car ! - that is sometimes an issue.

Thank you for the explanation.. i have a 2004 Idea, great car, great engine.. was just thinking if there are any differences.. So there are none.. Apart from the magic SPORT button in the Panda.. Hm.. any chance of bringing that to my Idea..

magijamarko said:

Thank you for the explanation.. i have a 2004 Idea, great car, great engine.. was just thinking if there are any differences.. So there are none.. Apart from the magic SPORT button in the Panda.. Hm.. any chance of bringing that to my Idea..

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That is an interesting question..... all the sport button does, afaik, is enable a different steering / torque sensor profile 'map' in the Delphi steering ecu. - in this case to reduce the pwered effect and give more 'feel'. (as opposed to the city button which is frightening and simulates drving on spilt diesel on icy roads lol .
According to Fiat data, the delphi ecu has 'various' profiles built in, they are selected by model type...
I would 'presume' that the type identifier is sent via CAN to the steering node.. this then uses what is the city button on a normal panda as the 'sport' button on an 'abnormal' Panda.. I am sure it would be possible to interpret and interrupt / rewrite the can signals with a microprocessor to simulate whatever you wanted.... probably easier to rewrite the maps in the ecu (swap them over - put sport in city area of prom... dunno how easy it is to rewrite the delphi unit... ???
I will check the section in elearn again, but I am sure it is based on type identifier sent to the steering node over can only...
There has to be a way to adjust it - if there are numerours maps in the EPS Node already, then hmmmm

A have the details for a small can analyser uning a pic micro.. might have to get the soldering iron out... I also happen to have a spare eps as well...

I just had another thought... (dangerous I know)
If one was to take the output of the torque sensor (the actual torque - not angular position, then you could 'trick' this with a small micro into a different reading - reduce the readings so that the ecu see less applied torque.. that 'should' make the steering less sensitive - hence a similar effect to 'sport' - that may well be easier. and possiby without a micro, just a potential divider and selection switch...
I am moving house at the moment... but I will add that to a list of things to do.. I need to do tests on the EPS output anyway for a project, so can rig up a test unit to interface the toque sensor to ecu.. sort of 'adjustable steering sensivity' ......
You could have a knob to wind up or down 'feel' and put a 'super duper' sticker on it...

I hate to rain on everyone's parade, but the sport button in the HP doesn't just back off the steering power assistance. I don't know how it does it, but it also massively improves the, otherwise pathetically limp, throttle response.

With sport mode off, the HP isn't particularly sporty to drive. The combination of overly light steering and awful throttle response have a serious negative effect on how excitable the car feels.

Matt100HP said:

I hate to rain on everyone's parade, but the sport button in the HP doesn't just back off the steering power assistance. I don't know how it does it, but it also massively improves the, otherwise pathetically limp, throttle response.

With sport mode off, the HP isn't particularly sporty to drive. The combination of overly light steering and awful throttle response have a serious negative effect on how excitable the car feels.

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Hi Matt, that is no problem to do though - the throttle response will be easilly adjustable from any fly by wire pot by a small micro, - it is simply taking one response curve and outputting another - the HP will have a dumbed down version without the button - not even linear I would presume - and a much more agressive response when sport mode - this is simply the same as pressing the pedal harder -
or should I say, that by adjusting the response curve output of the throttle pot, the same effect as you get on the HP would be easilly achieved. AND customisable as well .. you could have 5 different modes if you wanted. (pointless, but possible)...
So, really, one pic micro, and you could make a tiny unit, with which you can alter the steering response on any version, AND the throttle response (on any drive by wire version).. no worries..

Matt100HP said:

I hate to rain on everyone's parade, but the sport button in the HP doesn't just back off the steering power assistance. I don't know how it does it, but it also massively improves the, otherwise pathetically limp, throttle response.

With sport mode off, the HP isn't particularly sporty to drive. The combination of overly light steering and awful throttle response have a serious negative effect on how excitable the car feels.

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Totally agree. My GF borrowed my car at 5am this morning to take her daughter and friend to the airport. (Suitcases wouldn't go in her 500).

I just jumped in the car and actually checked to see if I had the handbrake on as the car felt completely different to normal. Looked on the dash and SPORT light was off!

Rooflessdriver said:

Totally agree. My GF borrowed my car at 5am this morning to take her daughter and friend to the airport. (Suitcases wouldn't go in her 500).

I just jumped in the car and actually checked to see if I had the handbrake on as the car felt completely different to normal. Looked on the dash and SPORT light was off!

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It's time for a serious relationship talk, turning off sport mode on the 100HP is the ultimate sin !

It doesn't give it any more go though, i found it made the steering too artificially heavy and didn't like the throttle response.

The sport button is just a bit of clever marketing really, it feels odd with it switched off so i'd have been quite happy for the 100hp to have come in permanent sport mode.

306maxi said:

It doesn't give it any more go though, i found it made the steering too artificially heavy and didn't like the throttle response.

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Most sport buttons in cars don't actually increase engine output, do they? I know some do (BMW's M button, for example), but I was under the impression most don't.

Gavv8 said:

The sport button is just a bit of clever marketing really, it feels odd with it switched off so i'd have been quite happy for the 100hp to have come in permanent sport mode.

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Same here, I never turn it off, the car feels lethargic and unresponsive without it.

Matt100HP said:

It's time for a serious relationship talk, turning off sport mode on the 100HP is the ultimate sin !

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Lol! She turned it off cos the fuel warning light was on and didn't want to empty the tank!

Matt100HP said:

Same here, I never turn it off, the car feels lethargic and unresponsive without it.

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Thing is you just put your foot down harder. IMHO the steering is ruined by the sport button.

306maxi said:

Thing is you just put your foot down harder. IMHO the steering is massively improved by the sport button.

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Fixed..