Did not post here for a while, but I have a problem with my 100HP.
It revs higher than normal when cold.
When you blip the throttle a little it stays at the max RPM it reaches in that blip. When the engine is on operating temperature after a fast couple of miles it is gone.. The engine idles normally again...
What could this be? The dealer wants to rip me off for €111,- per hour for only searching for the problem...

could be the coolant temp sensor, but best to stick a diagnostic box on it.
Could be throttle pot but unlikely to cure when up to temp, could be idle control, again, unlikely to clear when up to temp.

It is a difficult one, you can end up spending more on substitute parts in the end by trying various things. Without a good look at the state of sensors etc at startup, it is difficult to diagnose.

If you are fairly mechanically and electrically minded, get a copy of MES and a set of interfaces or CanTieCar and MES MUX (the best). if you intend to keep the car, it will pay for itself.
If you are not that way inclined, then unfortunately you will mostly end up paying for diagnostic work. Sometimes, if they want to graph the startup and warmup phase, the cost may not be cheap, then on top of that, you have the parts, if needed, and/or labour.

Does the idle stay high when the engine is warm? If so a vacuumleak could be the cause. Cleaning the throttlebody is always a good thing though.

gr J

Yes try cleaning the throttle body first, take the air filter box off and look down the T/B throat.

There is a cut away, creasant shaped in the choke, this is the idle bypass, a valve opens and closes to let in air, it bypasses the main larger choke with the butterfly valve on it and controls (along with other things) the idle speed.
Also make sure this butterfly valve snaps shut cleanly.

Send some carb cleaner down the smaller choke first when stone cold and let it soak, it may cough and stutter on startup later and need a few cranks.
Then spray a little PTFE spray down there to lube it up

Also with some electrical contact cleaner, pull all the connectors off the throttle body and clean them.
Pull the two big connectors off the top ECU and clean those too.

Mine did this high idle thing, but it was idling high when warmed up after a short drive, turned out the upstream O2 sensor was slow to heat and it wasn't able to enter it's normal warm running fueling cycle (Closed Loop).

I did notice the high idle dropped the instant I thumped the ECU connectors, so perhaps a dodgy connection might be the reason.

If you get no luck down these things, a cheap OBD2 tool from Ebay is useful, there is a Bluetooth one for around £8 that works with an Android device that will connect and give to an idea of what's going on.

Thanks for the info.. The car idles normal again, also when cold.. But now the engine warning light is on.. I suspect a sensor or so..
I think I will get one of those ODB2 readers quikly.. As the car only did 90.000 km's I'm not planning to sell.

Aside this is there anyone that has problems with their seats? The springs in the back of my drivers seat are broken. So it sits worse the last couple of months..

The cheap obd readers are not very informative, you also cannot connect to the majority of ecus in the panda - so even if you get a mil light and main code, one cannot dig further. The android app (torque) is nice, for displaying gauges etc, but is not really a diagnostic tool.
If you are keeping the car, seriously consider MES, even the 50 euro version with 327 and adapters. that is a PROPER diagnostic tool for Fiat.
Download the free version and use the simulate mode - you can do more with the free version then you can with any of the others, the most basic interface is the same, but try to avoid the cheapo bluetooth ones from ebay. (often coloured blue as well ) yuk...

I've got a ELM327 bluetooth OBDII module and it's good for getting the codes and monitoring coolant temperature etc. Would be useful in your situation.

MES (MultiECUscan) is absolutely marvellous in what it can do, if you have a laptop. You only need to buy or loan a cable (or 3 to do all the modules). I don't have a laptop so have to wait till my son is home at the weekend to use his laptop.

Thanks again for all the advise. Strangely today it idles normal and there is no engine warning light.. So strange..
Tuesday I will check the car with the dealer. See what they can read out of the computer. I will let you guys know..

Normally after three clear starts and cycles, the MIL lights stays off.

gr J

A3jeroen said:

Normally after three clear starts and cycles, the MIL lights stays off.

gr J

Click to expand...

That would also be only if the fault was not present any more (ie it WAS a mil trigger, but is now not occurring) - it would, I believe, continue to illuminate the mil if the fault had not cleared.
The ecu logs will show, this is where the cheapo OBD readers are of no real use as actual logs of events and intervals are often valuable fault finding data.

Hence the word clear...
When the cause is stillm present, the light stays on (obviously).

gr J

A3jeroen said:

Hence the word clear...
When the cause is stillm present, the light stays on (obviously).

gr J

Click to expand...

Not a usual use of the word clear in that context, but I accept your point.

It sounds better in Dutch. TS might have got it I guess

gr J

Some MIL's will clear or "pend" a code when turning the ignition off, particularly some fueling ones.

The ECU may also detect a fault with a sensor and not do anything until it detects the same fault within the same drive cycle, then light the MIL.

These tend to be O2 sensor issues, not complete circuit failure, but slow heater or slow switching.

For instance, a slow preheating sensor may "flag" a problem when cold to the ECU, but as the heat in the exhaust heat's it up, it may not give another "flag" in that drive cycle, so no MIL.
It might "flag" twice in that drive cycle, then a MIL will light, but turn the engine off and do a couple of "clean" cold start warm up's will see it turn it's self off.

Confusing I know, but this is where decent diagnostic tools come it, they should be able to lift "pendings".

Goudrons said:

Some MIL's will clear or "pend" a code when turning the ignition off, particularly some fueling ones.

The ECU may also detect a fault with a sensor and not do anything until it detects the same fault within the same drive cycle, then light the MIL.

These tend to be O2 sensor issues, not complete circuit failure, but slow heater or slow switching.

For instance, a slow preheating sensor may "flag" a problem when cold to the ECU, but as the heat in the exhaust heat's it up, it may not give another "flag" in that drive cycle, so no MIL.
It might "flag" twice in that drive cycle, then a MIL will light, but turn the engine off and do a couple of "clean" cold start warm up's will see it turn it's self off.

Confusing I know, but this is where decent diagnostic tools come it, they should be able to lift "pendings".

Click to expand...

MES, the only way to go, I honestly think any Panda owner who intends to keep the car or stick to Fiat / Alpha / Lancia marque, should invest in this product if they have at least a slight clue about cars. Mine has saved me a fortune - including identifying one clocked 2010 Panda...
Took it with me when I bought the current one, it was fascinating watching mr non fiat dealer's pucker factor as we stepped through the ecus and logged minor issues.. also got a whack of the price for a few of the errors which frightened the dealer but didnt worry me as I knew what they were, he didnt..

MES is king for Fiat owners.. Praise the MES.. :worship: :worship: :worship:

Today I drove the car to Schoorl and back. To there the car behaved normal. On the way back it did too in a traffic jam. After the jam the RPM's where higher than normal again. Restarting the car did not had any effect. The first RPM's are ok, but if you are moving again the lowest RPM's are around 1300... I will call the dealer tomorrow see if they can have my car in tomorrow. They said if it returns i could.. So.. We'll see...

A3jeroen Dutch would be easier to explane.. But I do get it... Will point them to the O2 sensors...

Ha! Heb de file gezien op mijn weg terug vanuit Alphen a/d Rijn.

Translation: Saw the traffic jam on my way home.

gr J

Sounds like what mine did.
It tripped into an "Open Loop system fault" due to a slow heating O2 sensor.

If you've got the tools, swap the pre and post cat sensors over, I think it will run better.

The fault they found was in the throttle response sensor. It was not visible in the motor management. That is why the engine thinks that the pedal is pressed partially. Moving the pedal does still give a reaction of the engine. Somtimes it came back to the original rpm. Sometimes not. The dealer said that they heard this more often and that it has different causes. They cleaned out the connectors and if it returns they will change the pedal. We'll see if it works.. As I heard people struggeling here I am fairly optimistic.

Keep you guys informed