Seemingly it is my turn to have a sick Panda...

Dez is a 2005 Multijet with just over 83K miles on the clock. I've owned him since new.

Recent history - Last serviced three weeks ago, full service with all new filters and oil. Timing chain replaced in January at 71K miles. Battery changed in November 2012 (Bosch battery). He's been garaged overnight since 2009 (when garage was built).

The symptoms - All was fine. Today I drove him around 4 miles and stopped for a message, then another 14 miles or so and stopped off for a couple of hours at a soft-play place for the wee one to have a run around, then another 8 miles to my father's house and parked up for an hour or so. Came out and engine started roughly with engine management light on. Tried a restart, light still on. Drove it about 300m downhill and pulled over and switched engine off and tried to restart. This time engine light went out and then gradually came back on. Let the engine run another couple of minutes and switched off again. Tried another restart and engine management light went out and stayed out, so I drove home again (around 26 miles). Car sounds like it's not firing on all cylinders and is sounding rather loud and rough even for a diesel.

I tried phoning the guy who usually services it (a Fiat-Alfa specialist) but he says he's on holiday till the 6th of January. I don't have a reader myself and I also tried the man who I used to use when I had my old Polo, but he's not quite modern enough to have a reader either...

Any suggestions welcome going on the symptoms... Worried that I'll be minus car for a while with it being between Christmas and New Year. I'll try the local Fiat dealership on Monday, but hoping that it won't be an expensive fix as I'm kinda broke...

AA or RAC membership, I've always hated calling them especially when I'm at home with a full workshop, but I don't have a reader, maybe worth it if you have membership, just a thought

I was thinking that perhaps tomorrow around 1pm I could maybe make a trip to Sainsburys, park up and then call the AA...

Wee Smurf said:

I was thinking that perhaps tomorrow around 1pm I could maybe make a trip to Sainsburys, park up and then call the AA...

Click to expand...

bet you wished you had bought a code reader for £15 now dont you, me and oldhammer carry them in the car
on a serious note , dont sound like anything too serious could just be injectors getting sticky
fingers crossed

jon1612 said:

bet you wished you had bought a code reader for £15 now dont you, me and oldhammer carry them in the car
on a serious note , dont sound like anything too serious could just be injectors getting sticky
fingers crossed

Click to expand...

Out of interest, which reader do you have?

Is the new dieselfilter on tightly? Could be sucking in a little air while being parked.

gr J

Wee Smurf said:

Out of interest, which reader do you have?

Click to expand...

samsung netbook with VAG KL lead and adapter cables for fiat
samsung netbook with opcom lead for wifes corsa
Autel maxiscan ms309 carried in car for fiat and general use

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300964943421?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

Buy a cheap, bluetooth OBD2 interface from ebay (£7 or £8)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mini-ELM3...iagnostic_Tools_Equipment&hash=item3cd2caecd5

It comes with a host of free software, they have limited functions, but will read PCM codes.
Also comes with Torque/Torque Pro for your Android device (tablet/phone) and it works well.

Mine just arrived this morning, so far works in my Jag, Vauxhall and Mazda.
Not tried the Panda as the Mrs has taken it to work.

Prognosis not looking good. :-(

The alternator has gone and the timing has slipped but won't know how much till the alternator is replaced. Won't know if anything has been bent till at least Thursday. Makes me feel rather unhappy now about having spent all that money on the new timing chain in January. I thought I was doing the right thing.

IMHO belts can slip a tooth (or two) but a chain? And how does the alternator come into this?

gr J

A3jeroen said:

IMHO belts can slip a tooth (or two) but a chain? And how does the alternator come into this?

gr J

Click to expand...

They can jump a tooth if badly worn or grossly mistensioned.

The alternator could have been damaged when replacing the chain and only just failed now, or it could be a coincidence.

I'm thinking the guy who changed your chain hasn't done too good a job of it. I'm assuming the guy doing the work did actually change the sprockets, as putting a new chain on worn sprockets is a recipe for disaster. Sadly the quality of many jobs done by the trade just isn't what it used to be.

I guess your only option now is to pay again to have the job done properly; I hope that this hasn't damaged anything else.

You have my condolences, for what it's worth.

I'm just miffed that having spent all that money to avoid this type of thing happening probably has caused it to happen. Now I'm back to square one and probably face a larger bill than the first one. I think I'll be going back to the main dealer for service again. The reason for change for me was that the original dealer where I bought the car ceased being a Fiat dealership and one of their mechanics set up on his own, so it seemed reasonable to move to him. The new main dealer is a bit further away for me.

I probably don't have any comeback now, but regardless he took this week off and I can't be without car that long. I had to get things sorted this week. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Just hope that I haven't ended up with a load of damage done. I can ill afford any extra car expense right now.

Wee Smurf said:

Just hope that I haven't ended up with a load of damage done.

Click to expand...

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

Ta, feel like I need that!

The alternator is not touched when the chain is changed the timing could slip if the sprockets are not tightened properly as there is no key way to hold them in the right place . The chain is lubricated by a tube with a jet at the end some kits come with a new pipe either way if the jet is blocked it's the death of the chain

hi sorry to read your bad news,i am currently running one of these engines and have to say reading on the internet they do seem to be either good or bad
i read that your oil was changed often so heres my prognosis
as mentioned did you just have a chain fitted as as mentioned this is as worse or worser than keeping the original chain on
did your guy cut corners?

anyway if it is the chain and you get it replaced then insist on the full kit including tensioner and cogs comes from a known trusted source fai and febi bilstein do them and i would trust both of them,ive looked on the internet and i see lots of sellers selling rubbish but telling you its oem quality when its obviously a poor made copy fit only to get a dog off your drive and into auction

I had no reason to think that any corners were cut in the first place. I genuinely just like to keep my cars for a long time. I've been a car owner since 1994 and in almost 20 years I'm on my second car. I look after my car and don't cut corners. The car gets what it needs. Mot in Northern Ireland is different to England. We bring our cars to a government test centre who will either pass or fail your car. They don't do any work. I will always have my car checked out prior to the test unlike others who put their car through the test just to see what it will fail on and then get that fixed. I have never even had any advisories apart from a side light which had blown on the way to the test centre. It gets serviced regularly and gets all that it needs. I have no idea of what has happened here, however having put the money into it, I'm just disappointed with this result and a bit let down. At the end of the day, it's my daily runner and I need it to get myself and my kids from a to b safely. I'd never take any chances on that.

Well, thought I would do an update...

The Panda has been in the dealership since 30 December...

So far, the things replaced include alternator belt and they also found that the fuel pipe was cracked, so that was also replaced. The car would turn over but the turbo wasn't boosting at all. They tested the turbo and found it to be functioning normally, so they tried a new MAF sensor which made no improvement so they said that the next step was to dismantle and look for other faults.

This morning I got a call to say that they found that the timing chain and the guide rails needed replaced. I'm feeling more anxious about the outcome now.

My main worry is, is there likely to be any damage to the engine? I would never have driven the car further had I suspected that the timing chain was the fault that threw up the engine management light in the first place and having had the chain replaced last January, I had totally discounted that as a likely fault. The fact is that the car has been driven probably 40-50 miles with the timing out. I don't know how far the timing chain had jumped, but as I said the car was running pretty rough when I left it to the dealership. I'm facing a rather large bill and I don't know if at the end of it all, I'll have a fully working engine...

I should say as well that the dealership have been excellent. I had never used them before but they have tried their best to help me out. They have tried parts and if they didn't improve things, they removed them and aren't charging me for them. They have also given me a 500 to drive in the meanwhile.

With these engines as they are not an over head cam they don't tend to damage the valves as they have sacrificial rockers which take the brunt so fingers crossed as the rockers are cheap and easy to replace