Technical Panda Multijet Gearbox conversion

[farmer.palmer]

As I wrote in a previous thread I have a 2010 panda multijet which I had 'remapped' by a local company in Banbury last summer. So far so good, I don't drive it hard, but allow the torque to do the work and I quite enjoy driving it, the extra 25 hp makes its quite a fun vehicle. I put new brake discs and some quality pads on it shortly after the remap so it stops properly, quite quickly infact if you need to.

I have also fitted some 14" steel rims and 175/65/14 tyres from a fiat 500 which are marginally taller than the old 155/80/13's and offer a litte more front end grip adn reduce the gearing slightly but marginally. I don't really want to go down the 15" alloys route as the roads around here are terrible and I want it to be resilient to potholes, not a victim of them.

My only gripe now is the gearing, at an indicated 70mph the engine is doing a little under 3000 rpm which is silly IMHO. I have searched the forum but cannot find anyone really talking about this, but my feeling is there must be a suitable 6 speed gearbox that will be a relatively easy sway considering how many different vehicles have the 1.3 MJ engine.

I have looked at gearboxes on ebay (just for inspiration at present, not to purchase) from corsa's & astras, but the box looks visually different, not least the internal slave cylinder and selector input. I wondered if the bellhousing from the panda would bolt onto the gearbox from one of these....

Also looked at gearboxes from Fiorino's and Puntos but they both appear to be different too. Anyone got any good advice?
TIA.

 

[koalar]

I will post some ratios from the 5 and 6 gearboxes when I get back home

From memory the final drives are identical between the two

 

[AndyRKett]

I believe these cars were set up to be most efficient at 60mph (100kph) at least my mk2 Punto multijet would do 60+ mph all day long if you kept it at 60.

I seem to think in the panda they used a smaller (somehow) gearbox, so your only options may be limited to either the panda or the Fiat 500. The only other oddball I thought of was the Ford KA built on the Fiat 500 platform but I can’t remember if they did that with a multijet engine let alone a 6 speed box.

6 gears tends to not extend the Rev range so in 6th at 70mph you may still find the revs are in that ball park, they just keep the car in the right spot on the torque curve more of the time for efficiency

 

[Bonefish Blues]

I believe these cars were set up to be most efficient at 60mph (100kph) at least my mk2 Punto multijet would do 60+ mph all day long if you kept it at 60.

I seem to think in the panda they used a smaller (somehow) gearbox, so your only options may be limited to either the panda or the Fiat 500. The only other oddball I thought of was the Ford KA built on the Fiat 500 platform but I can’t remember if they did that with a multijet engine let alone a 6 speed box.

6 gears tends to not extend the Rev range so in 6th at 70mph you may still find the revs are in that ball park, they just keep the car in the right spot on the torque curve more of the time for efficiency

The 6 speed has a super-low first - certainly in the 4x4, plus a regular 5 speed 'on top', as it were. Are all 6 speeds the same?

 

[jrkitching]

Are the gearboxes dimensionally the same?

IIRC in the 500/Panda, the cars with 6 speed gearboxes have a substantially larger turning circle. I'd always thought this was due to gearbox clearance issues.

@koalar, can you please check if there are any differences in the driveshafts?

 

[koalar]

6 speed does not look like the best option anyhow

 

[Bamboocross]

Got a stage 2 map in my cross on 175/65/15 and she’ll sit at 90 all day comfortably and push well past when provoked but I’ve never wanted a 6th gear. I would look at 15”s and suitable tyres to help increase your gearing but it won’t make the speedo read properly the Multijet needs to be kept spinning to make it work and before mine was mapped it spend a lot of time in 4th on the motorway as it couldn’t pull 5th on a slope

 

[The Panda Nut]

Got a stage 2 map in my cross on 175/65/15 and she’ll sit at 90 all day comfortably and push well past when provoked but I’ve never wanted a 6th gear. I would look at 15”s and suitable tyres to help increase your gearing but it won’t make the speedo read properly the Multijet needs to be kept spinning to make it work and before mine was mapped it spend a lot of time in 4th on the motorway as it couldn’t pull 5th on a slope

I take its a diesel??

 

[Bamboocross]

Yup 2010 cross Multijet, Avon tuning remap with egr disabled on mud and snow tyres …. Covered in mud and heavy duty under body plates . Mud must weigh a fair bit and she will still pull to 5100rpm in 5th

 

[koalar]

The original poster wants to lower the revs in 5th

They already have the best ratios and diff fitted in the Panda/500 range

Changing for any other including the 6 speed will make maters worse than they already have

Or am I missing something

 

[Bamboocross]

Lower Revs is going to take some major re engineering of the gearbox or diff(s) with custom made gears to properly increase the 5th gear ratio or raise all the gears via a final drive mod

Only logical route that does not involve spending many times the value of the panda is to increase the wheel/tyre size to lower the revs at the same speed but you can only go so big

 

[Bonefish Blues]

Lower Revs is going to take some major re engineering of the gearbox or diff(s) with custom made gears to properly increase the 5th gear ratio or raise all the gears via a final drive mod

Only logical route that does not involve spending many times the value of the panda is to increase the wheel/tyre size to lower the revs at the same speed but you can only go so big

Or decrease the wheel and tyre size so that the speedometer reads 70 mph at 2500 rpm

 

[koalar]

Are the gearboxes dimensionally the same?

IIRC in the 500/Panda, the cars with 6 speed gearboxes have a substantially larger turning circle. I'd always thought this was due to gearbox clearance issues.

@koalar, can you please check if there are any differences in the driveshafts?

Yes no maybe

I can't remember fully and it's not worth looking it up again as the 6 speed is worse in this case, it just that the gears are closer together

The 1.1 and 1.2 share the same shaft

1.3 is unique

The 100HP is unique

The 1.2 and 1.3 climbing, Treking, 4x4 share the same drive shaft go figure

Some of the differences is the splnes on the hub end, probably disc size, use different hubs

I suspect the diesel and 100HP might be swappable, there was something like 2mm length difference but without putting them side by side I can't be sure

By swapping hubs and so on you can probably mix and match quite a bit, Some punto parts are also a direct fit

My 500 gearbox into a panda was a straight swap

 

[AndyRKett]

The problem with swapping a petrol gearbox into a diesel would again be the ratios, petrol cars Rev a lot higher so you might put the diesel in a state when it’s off boost and lacks torque to accelerate

 

[farmer.palmer]

View attachment 437683
6 speed does not look like the best option anyhow

Thanks for posting that, its interesting data, but it just relates to other Panda's. In my OP I mentioned that I was looking at gearboxes out of other models fitted with the same engine such as a Corsa or an Astra as some of these came with a 6 speed box.

 

[farmer.palmer]

Got a stage 2 map in my cross on 175/65/15 and she’ll sit at 90 all day comfortably and push well past when provoked but I’ve never wanted a 6th gear. I would look at 15”s and suitable tyres to help increase your gearing but it won’t make the speedo read properly the Multijet needs to be kept spinning to make it work and before mine was mapped it spend a lot of time in 4th on the motorway as it couldn’t pull 5th on a slope

Yes, it appears you haven't really read the OP, but thanks for the input.

 

[koalar]

Thanks for posting that, its interesting data, but it just relates to other Panda's. In my OP I mentioned that I was looking at gearboxes out of other models fitted with the same engine such as a Corsa or an Astra as some of these came with a 6 speed box.

Although the engines are similar

The gearboxes appear to be very different

Astra

Panda

Along with CSC

No doubt if you have deep enough pockets Quaife or similar will make a differential to your requirements

 

[DaveMcT]

I’ve not been on for a while. Just too much going on.
I have a 2009 Multijet with rebuilt engine new cam chain new rockets and lifters new turbo new clutch and new oil seals everywhere.
It has the 15 inch steels with 195-50 R 15 tyres that I used on the 100HP.
My only problem at motorway speeds is its tendency to keep on going when I want to keep to the limits. Yet a slight slope will slow it down so you are always juggling the throttle. It’s never needed a downshift.
I also have a 100HP that was written off by a deer and I’m now scrapping. Some parts will be for sale body trims etc.

100HP has an annoyingly wide turning circle because the wide wheels would otherwise catch the longer gearbox.

I don’t see any point fitting the 100HP gearbox to the Multijet. The closer set gears would not add any value and it’s probably more fragile than the five speed.