we have a panda active reg MD53 ... does very anoying things . runs great most of the time BUT can just cut out , no lights on dash at all but you can still crank engine . I have been lookin for loose connections etc but so far none found . it will eventually restart by turning the ignition key off and on several times usually about 30 times the last time it did it I was driving across a main road and the girl stopped dead its only done 24,000 miles my wife wont drive it now as its happened to her 3 times and had to get the aa out . they thought it was to do with the ignition key not communicating with the engine management or something ...any suggestions would be recieved very greatfully

Could it be an earthing fault,maybe it's gone a bit furry at the body/battery contact, have a good root around all the cable joints, good luck.

Might be worth undoing the steering shroud and checking the plugs going into the ignition barrel.

Could be internal failure within the ignition barrel, not common, but not unheard of.

Jon.

thanks for the suggestion . but I can still crank the engine when the fault is on

thats I think the next to do . have a look at the cables on the ignition switch . damm thing is its ok now and might be for months . then just packs up . and usually in the worst places . not done it yet on outside lane on a busy motorway BUT IT COULD

bluetracker said:

thanks for the suggestion . but I can still crank the engine when the fault is on

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The way the plug is for ignition, it'll either enable ignition and no starter, or starter and no ignition if in at a strange angle, as each are either end of the plug, with the power pin in the middle

ok thanks I'll bear that in mind . havn't got the cowl off yet as weather is terrible here and we have no garage. we have had fiats for 40 odd years and this is the first one to have a "stupid" fault and as I said its ok now and may well be for a few weeks. but dare not trust the car. no more than very local runs and then not in rush hour, one time it happend when my wife and daughter were out it stopped half way across a busy cross roads. caused quite a hold up.

Do electrics like indicators and wipers / lights etc (all the ignition switched bits) work when the fault occurs?

good question . when the fault occured the last time I was stuck half way accross the main road (Bury-Manchester)and all I wanted to do was get safe. I do know that there are no dash lights and the engine will only crank. I hope to be able to get inside the ignition switch cover tomorrow and take a look there

Thanks to all that have offered help .

PS. I know the hassard lights were working

FYI, the engine will always crank in all FIATs and most other cars during fault conditions. The wire in the back of the barrel goes straight to the starter motor solenoid and the motor to the battery. You can remove all ECUs from the car and it will crank.

If you have no lights on the dash, then at least ignition-operated power is not getting to the body ECU. Communication with your key and ECUs is not the issue when you have no dash activity, so forget that or communication with the engine ECU and body ECU if mechanic says that. I would guess at loose ignition connection to body ECU or faulting body ECU. When you next have the issue, try to operate an ignition-dependent device to aid the diagnosis.

lewey said:

FYI, the engine will always crank in all FIATs and most other cars during fault conditions. The wire in the back of the barrel goes straight to the starter motor solenoid and the motor to the battery. You can remove all ECUs from the car and it will crank.

If you have no lights on the dash, then at least ignition-operated power is not getting to the body ECU. Communication with your key and ECUs is not the issue when you have no dash activity, so forget that or communication with the engine ECU and body ECU if mechanic says that. I would guess at loose ignition connection to body ECU or faulting body ECU. When you next have the issue, try to operate an ignition-dependent device to aid the diagnosis.

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The only thing I'm trying to get at Lewey is that there are two plugs, a 3 pin with power in the middle, starter signal wire one side, ignition the other. All other ignition switched features (lights, wipers etc) come off of the other plug (4pin iirc).

So if there is power to crank, but no ignition then it's either A) a faulty barrel or B) the 3 pin plug is loosing a slight connection on the ignition signal side, but if the other plug is in correctly lights and wipers etc should still operate as there is power for cranking (I believe it's the one power source for the lot from the 3 pin plug).

Agreed. Demonstrating that other things work won't prove barrel failure on its own.

once again thanks for all your help.
I have given the 5 connections on the ignition switch close examination and all perfect. gave each wire a good pull with the engine running and nothing went wrong. next thing is a wiring diagram and trace all the cables further on from the ignition switch . at the moment our panda is a naughty girl and cant be trusted to go anywere. I was just hoping some one would say "I've had that fault and it was bla bla bla" Fiats suggestion was to change every thing from ignition key , lock. wiring harness etc. AND HOPE lol
I assume there is a key reciever some where, it might be that the AA did suggest that at one time and said he had done an emergency reprogram

The key 'immobiliser' receiver is on the end of the barrel, and is the ring with a wire (2 core) going to it with w small White square connector / plug iirc.

I also think the problem is related to a faulty ignition switch or an improper engine ground strap short. Also fouled plugs and/or cracked ignition wires/corroded plug caps may also be the culprit.

guess thats the other on on the ignition switch 2 black wires next to the plug with 3 wires . I did take that one out when the engine was running and it still ran. oh well there is no point trying an auto electrican I used to do electrical repairs and with no fault showing you aint got much chance of tracing the fault and as I said you just never know WHEN it will stop and I dont think the Panda has a fault code memory to check has it?

Disconnecting the immobiliser won't affect the car once it's running. Only on start up when the ignition has been off for more than about 30secs.

bluetracker said:

guess thats the other on on the ignition switch 2 black wires next to the plug with 3 wires . I did take that one out when the engine was running and it still ran. oh well there is no point trying an auto electrican I used to do electrical repairs and with no fault showing you aint got much chance of tracing the fault and as I said you just never know WHEN it will stop and I dont think the Panda has a fault code memory to check has it?

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There is a fault memory, including faults that don't illuminate the MIL. Trouble is, it appears your fault is probably that the body ECU doesn't wake up or that is at least a symptom of your fault, so it isn't in a position to store a fault for that!

I think you are right that even a good auto-electrician would be helpless. This is basically often the conclusion of this sort of issue. A friend at work came to me with a very similar issue on her 5 year old Peugot Diesel, which I know nothing about, but I thought of your issue. Sure enough, the dealers have told her all they can do is replace all the ECUs in the firing line and get a new key and programme it all - well over £1k of parts + labour on top and she is left with little option but to pay it and hope it works!

thanks for your reply
there is one other cure and that is to sell the car and say nothing about its problems but then if I heard that it had been involved in some accident (like I nearly was) I could never forgive myself. so I will keep looking and hope be able to get the fault to be on then off in a controlled manner only then will I be confident that the fault is cleared. intermitant faults in any equipment can be a devil to locate, and lot of luck is needed

If you can buy a simple analog or digital $25.00 VOM (Volt Ohmeter) from Radio Shack, It will assist you in diagnosing electrical troubles on FIATs. Just set the DC reading meter to 12 Volt range. Electrical ignition troubleshooting 101 for any car is really the process of elimination. Swap good parts for suspected bad parts one at a time until the defective one is identified. Test the defective part on a bench when possible and carefully inspect for cracks, or short circuits. If you follow this methodology, you will be able to identify the defective part or component.