I have just had an email from a Panda owner who told me that his dealership had done an update on his ECU that was only released on the 30th of September. He said that it has made a significant difference to the performance. I contacted my dealership to be told they know nothing about this update and also informed me that they would not be prepared to take the car back even in part exchange.

I have never complained about my dealership only about Fiat, I have got on well with the dealership in the past, but I think Fiat may be the ones driving this decision as I had an email a few days ago from someone in Cyprus who had just bought a Fiat with problems and had found my posts on the Forum. He asked what course of action I recommend. I advised him to reject the car. He tried this and they told him he couldn't reject it as there was nothing wrong with it and that he would have to pay 8000 euros to change it for a diesel to cover price difference and depreciation.

So who wants to buy a low mileage Panda Easy, only 6 months old? Fiat think they have us all over a barrel on this one. VOSA didn't get enough other complaints to follow up my safety issue complaint. I am considering my next move.

Hi David,

I guess you could ask the person in the UK who has had the update to kindly obtain the campaign number for the software update they had? It's not a huge surprise to me that one dealer might have the details and another won't, especially if the update in question was only released on Tuesday.

There will almost certainly be a number for it as the service book for our old Panda has got the stamp in the back when the dealership did a body software update in April, and it had a particular number.

To me, this seems to be the next (and probably only) option for you right now.

Theres also mention of a software update for pandas and 500s dated 2nd october on honestjohn site.I cant post url , due to lack of posts and forum rules ,but just look for the fiat panda 2012 review at honestjohn site.The update seems to be for eu6 engines.Im not sure what that is or how you would know what engine you have?

ellison EURO6 is an emissions standard, was introduced for petrol engines in 2014 so would only apply to nigh-on brand new vehicles. How old is your Panda David?

Eklipze3k said:

@ellison EURO6 is an emissions standard, was introduced for petrol engines in 2014 so would only apply to nigh-on brand new vehicles. How old is your Panda David?

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Thanks for the info

Just googled said review on honestjohn, I can see they've added some comments on the bad points for the Panda.

According to that, "Fiat acknowledged four recorded customer complaints of 2,600 EU6 Panda 1.2 sold". No idea where that figure comes from mind.

Anyway, it would appear that something may indeed be in the pipeline, and that (hopefully) it's just a matter of time before people suffering from this problem get the required software update.

Maybe if you haven't heard anything by the end of next week, you should contact Fiat CS or your dealer to see if they have the details.

I heard back from Fiat customer services in Spain yesterday and was told that there was nothing wrong with my car and that it met all of the european standards and as far as they were concerned my case was closed and I was free to pursue legal channels if I wished. Then shortly afterwards my dealer called me to say that a specialist technician was being sent from Fiat in Madrid to carry out further tests on my car next week.
The last test was done by the director of the dealership whilst I was in the passenger seat. The only way he could climb the ramp from the underground workshop was by excessive revving and slipping the clutch so much that the car was filled with a burning smell. He still tried to tell me that this was normal for this car! Let's see what the technician has to say but I am not getting my hopes up. However it would be great if a software update could improve the problem.

I hope the latest ECU update will make driving the car easier and more predictable. Unfortunately I cannot see it improving the power output. When I took my car and my daughter's 09 Panda to be tested on a rolling road it was quite clear that the Euro 6 engine is completely lacking in low-down torque, which is needed for normal driving. Experts have told me that there would not be any possibility of a fix for the lack of torque, it cannot be done via software changes, the engine would need re-designing.

I would love Fiat to prove me wrong on this, and would even be willing to pay for my engine to be fixed, but won't hold my breath over it. As things stand at the moment I can't even sell it, to foist such a problem engine onto some unsuspecting buyer would be immoral in my opinion.

I agree with you. It is immoral to sell somebody a car which behaves in this manner. However this is exactly what the Fiat dealers have done to us and many others. They need to take some responsibility and stop trying to pass the buck. Fiat are a giant corporation who we have very little chance of taking on legally. The dealers meanwhile are smaller businesses and much more vulnerable to bad publicity and loud protest. I have made mine aware that unless I am satisfied with the eventual outcome of all of the tests and enquiries I will park the car outside the showroom with some very large graphics making any potential customers aware of the problems I have suffered. I will also hand out flyers and do everything I can to make a nuisance of myself. Faced with the cost of lost sales and bad publicity I think they may find it favorable to exchange the car on fair and reasonable terms.

The statement about an engine redesign is a basic untruth. The engine, according to reports was ok before, but not now. So they changed the engine for Euro6 - No they didn't. Therefore, assuming E6 spec is the problem, then it's down to the changes they did make.

Anyway, I'll retest my proposed purchase shortly and see what I think.

Ive just bought a new 1.2 panda and cant honestly see what all the fuss is about yes it is gutless below 2500 rpm but then it only produces 69bhp so i expected that. I havent had a problem with hill starts as long as i pull away using over 3000rpm its fine. Before i bought it i took an extensive test drive to make sure it could do what i needed and it does

philholt101 said:

Ive just bought a new 1.2 panda and cant honestly see what all the fuss is about yes it is gutless below 2500 rpm but then it only produces 69bhp so i expected that. I havent had a problem with hill starts as long as i pull away using over 3000rpm its fine. Before i bought it i took an extensive test drive to make sure it could do what i needed and it does

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Sounds very reasonable.

Just picked ours up and did the hill test. No problems whatsoever apart from me doing first to fourth...At least thats a problem with a solution...

I picked up my new Panda Pop 1.2 ten days ago .

It was horrible for the first few days exhibiting erratic revs and 'bogging down' in first gear.

Controlling the revs when pulling away from junctions was nigh on impossible.

Trying to do a hill start was scary !

Getting across a junction or roundabout without getting 'smooshed' was a major concern !

I have been driving for thirty years and been in the motor industry for the last twenty years as a technician and Engineer.

Clearly there are cars out there that exhibit this fault and others that don't.

Incidentally, my father bought the same model from a dealership 200 miles away, and his car has the same fault.

I have had three Pandas now, with a total of six within the family all together.

I went through this rubbish with my last one - Panda MyLife (run off model of the old shape one with the then new Euro 5 engine ) - more or less same fault - took Fiat 9 months to fix it with an ECU Remap which they denied ever existed for the longest time.

Can't believe Fiat still haven't got their act together on this.

Now, the car has 700 miles on it, and it is improving day by day, hopefully this will continue, whilst I once again battle with Fiat.

For people that don't have an affected car, good for you, but please don't confuse a supposed lack of power 'moan' from a car with 69bhp, with cars which have a downright dangerous fault on them, which are not fit for purpose, especially when brand new.

Regards

Fine, but equally the catch all reasoning of Euro 6 and the subsequent promotion of 'The Car(s)' being the problem is damaging to the cars reputation, sales and residuals.

At 10 days old, mine would be rejected. But not after I'd returned and done a back to back with the dealers demo model.

Hope you get it sorted.

Tell you what though. My Daughter picked up her new Peugeot 108 on Saturday, 1.2 litre triple, and I've just driven it. That is one fit engine, it's like having an animal under the bonnet. More torque than her old Mito 1.4 and a load less weight.

ExBluebird said:

Tell you what though. My Daughter picked up her new Peugeot 108 on Saturday, 1.2 litre triple, and I've just driven it. That is one fit engine, it's like having an animal under the bonnet. More torque than her old Mito 1.4 and a load less weight.

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I had a few Citroen c1's with the 1.0 3cyl. Ace little motors that rev out great, and give fantastic economy. Personally, I love 3cyl motors.

deeyup said:

Personally, I love 3cyl motors.

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Me too! I had a 3cyl Ibiza that was a riot - felt (and was) unburstable, revved very freely, and made a lovely growl. I'm hoping the TA will match up.

Those new pug/citroen/aygo's may have good engines but I was not impressed by the build of them.
Every panel can be flexed by pressing one finger on the bodywork!

Makes the Panda Build quality look like a Bentley in comparison.

Totally agree with that. The build is very cheaply done on those cars, the doors don't thud closed, they ping.
My Nissan leaf is also a fair bit less solid than my Panda too. The pandas doors do thud (like a golf ) whereas my leaf doors feel and sound a lot thinner.