Technical another 1242 8v conversion help

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Technical another 1242 8v conversion help

diogogaspar

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Good evening

First post so please be gentle...

I'm a proud owner of a 94 panda 1000 i.e fire and came across a low milage well serviced 1242 8v from a Lancia Y selecta...

I wonder what i need to do the conversion....

I reckon I could use my own flywheel on it

I know this has been discussed in past threads but not with an auto me thinks...

What else do I need to do?

Thanks in advance
 
Good evening

First post so please be gentle...

I'm a proud owner of a 94 panda 1000 i.e fire and came across a low milage well serviced 1242 8v from a Lancia Y selecta...

I wonder what i need to do the conversion....

I reckon I could use my own flywheel on it

I know this has been discussed in past threads but not with an auto me thinks...

What else do I need to do?

Thanks in advance

I can't really help with that but someone will be along shortly who can I am sure, just wanted to say welcome!
 
Thanks for the welcome onemanmade!..:)

My main concern are the ecu to engine connections.

Original panda dashboard to sensor connections.

Engine mounts, wich i believe are the same.

Discs and calipers plus carriers from donour car (they are bigger)

I also have a lancia y10 ARB and 40mm springs and lancia y10 instrument with rev counter to fit... this going to be funny!!!
 
hey there diogogaspar.

i have recently swapped the engine in my panda 4x4 (project fallout panda) from a carburettor 999cc to multi point injection 1242 8v from a punto 75.

the engine swap its self is very strait forward. you can leave all of the engine manifolds and alternator in place while removing and swapping the engine.

first off remove all wires, pipes and cables leading to the rest of the car from the engine.
you can if you wish, remove the radiator. i managed to do the engine swap very carefully with the radiator left in situ. i recommend it is removed before the engine swap.

on the back of the 1.2 engine there will be an extra bracket to bolt the gearbox to. this is not needed so it can be removed. and in its place remove the exhaust bracket from off the 999cc engine and bolt it onto the 1.2 engine. (i am not sure if 999cc engines with CAT converters have this bracket though)

you will have to have the car jacked up on axle stands on the front. given your car is left hand drive, you need to take off the drivers side wheel, undo the strut from the wheel hub, undo the rear wishbone mount, undo the drive axle nut (best do this while the car is still on the ground, not jacked up), and remove the drive axle from the wheel bearing/hub.
you have to do this to give yourself enough room to move the gearbox over when you remove the engine.
you can leave the drive axles in the gearbox while you do the engine change. just make sure you don't stretch the CV boots too much.

removing the engine from the gearbox is somewhat easy. you have 5 13mm bolts. 2 are on the bottom and hold the gear linkage to the gearbox (if your car has the rod type gear linkages) and 3 that hold the starter motor to the engine that need to be removed, then 2 small 10mm bolts on the front and near the back next to the CV boot flange that need to be removed. these hold the thin metal flywheel cover on.
you then have 4x 19mm bolts that hold the engine to the gearbox.

once all the bolts are removed you need to support the engine and gearbox well.

undo the engine mount, the gearbox mount (from the gearbox and the car body), and the rear gearbox mount.

by now the gearbox should already be parting from the engine. i find a nice crow bar and rocking the gearbox around soon pulls it free from the engine.

the punto 1.2 flywheel and clutch fits the panda gearbox perfectly. so not really any need to change them for different parts. dont forget to change the thrust bearing if you change the clutch for a new one.

using a scaffolding pole and 2 strong people you can lift the 999cc engine free from the car. (not boasting here but i was able to do this by myself. the 999cc engine is slightly lighter than the 1.2 engine)

i lifted the engine using very heavy duty ratchet straps looped around both of the manifolds distributing the engines weight evenly. seat belts work very well for this too. (one seat belt has enough strength to lift the whole car with ease)

may as well do some cleaning while the engine is removed. the bell housing of the gearbox can be very dirty. a pressure washer cleans it up very nice but ware eye protection while doing it.

when you come to fit the 1.2 engine lift it how you did the 999cc engine. then just redo all the bolts you put in.

getting the gearbox to mate up to the engine can be a pain i recommend leaving the gearbox in 5th gear and keep turning one of the drive axles to line the splines of the gearbox input shaft up with the clutch plate bolted to the engine.

when it comes time to do the wiring.. i think you will find this very helpful:

these are where all the colour wires go on the engine wiring loom:

the big thick RED wire, is a constant live from the battery.
ORANGE wire, its an ignition live.
BROWN with WHITE stripe is the fuel pump
BLUE wire, it is for the REV counter
LIGHT GREY with GREEN stripe goes to the CODE box (ECU pin 7)(wire colours match on ECU and CODE box connector!)
BLUE with GREEN stripe goes to the injector/engine management light (ECU pin 6)
LIGHT GREY with YELLOW stripe goes to the oil light
LIGHT GREY with BLACK stripe goes to the battery/Alternator light
LIGHT GREY only wire goes to the temperature gauge

you will need to use the fuel pump from the dona car as the panda fuel pump with not make enough pressure to feed the injector(s)

the immobiliser can be a pain. but if you get all the right bits and connect the wires up correct you should be fine.
you will need the ECU, CODE box, Aerial and key from the dona car. these must be all a matching set from one car.

the wiring on the CODE box is simple.
RED is constant battery live
Orange is ignition live
Black wire is a ground/earth
LIGHT GREY with GREEN stripe goes to the ECU (pin 7)
the remaining wire is the negative trigger to the "CODE" dashboard indicator light.

don't forget to tape the key THROUGH the loop aerial so it works every time!

when all this is connected. connect a battery to the car and see if the engine runs!


i hope this is of help to you :)


i should put this in the "how too" section!
 
hey there diogogaspar.

i have recently swapped the engine in my panda 4x4 (project fallout panda) from a carburettor 999cc to multi point injection 1242 8v from a punto 75.

the engine swap its self is very strait forward. you can leave all of the engine manifolds and alternator in place while removing and swapping the engine.

first off remove all wires, pipes and cables leading to the rest of the car from the engine.
you can if you wish, remove the radiator. i managed to do the engine swap very carefully with the radiator left in situ. i recommend it is removed before the engine swap.

on the back of the 1.2 engine there will be an extra bracket to bolt the gearbox to. this is not needed so it can be removed. and in its place remove the exhaust bracket from off the 999cc engine and bolt it onto the 1.2 engine. (i am not sure if 999cc engines with CAT converters have this bracket though)

you will have to have the car jacked up on axle stands on the front. given your car is left hand drive, you need to take off the drivers side wheel, undo the strut from the wheel hub, undo the rear wishbone mount, undo the drive axle nut (best do this while the car is still on the ground, not jacked up), and remove the drive axle from the wheel bearing/hub.
you have to do this to give yourself enough room to move the gearbox over when you remove the engine.
you can leave the drive axles in the gearbox while you do the engine change. just make sure you don't stretch the CV boots too much.

removing the engine from the gearbox is somewhat easy. you have 5 13mm bolts. 2 are on the bottom and hold the gear linkage to the gearbox (if your car has the rod type gear linkages) and 3 that hold the starter motor to the engine that need to be removed, then 2 small 10mm bolts on the front and near the back next to the CV boot flange that need to be removed. these hold the thin metal flywheel cover on.
you then have 4x 19mm bolts that hold the engine to the gearbox.

once all the bolts are removed you need to support the engine and gearbox well.

undo the engine mount, the gearbox mount (from the gearbox and the car body), and the rear gearbox mount.

by now the gearbox should already be parting from the engine. i find a nice crow bar and rocking the gearbox around soon pulls it free from the engine.

the punto 1.2 flywheel and clutch fits the panda gearbox perfectly. so not really any need to change them for different parts. dont forget to change the thrust bearing if you change the clutch for a new one.

using a scaffolding pole and 2 strong people you can lift the 999cc engine free from the car. (not boasting here but i was able to do this by myself. the 999cc engine is slightly lighter than the 1.2 engine)

i lifted the engine using very heavy duty ratchet straps looped around both of the manifolds distributing the engines weight evenly. seat belts work very well for this too. (one seat belt has enough strength to lift the whole car with ease)

may as well do some cleaning while the engine is removed. the bell housing of the gearbox can be very dirty. a pressure washer cleans it up very nice but ware eye protection while doing it.

when you come to fit the 1.2 engine lift it how you did the 999cc engine. then just redo all the bolts you put in.

getting the gearbox to mate up to the engine can be a pain i recommend leaving the gearbox in 5th gear and keep turning one of the drive axles to line the splines of the gearbox input shaft up with the clutch plate bolted to the engine.

when it comes time to do the wiring.. i think you will find this very helpful:

these are where all the colour wires go on the engine wiring loom:

the big thick RED wire, is a constant live from the battery.
ORANGE wire, its an ignition live.
BROWN with WHITE stripe is the fuel pump
BLUE wire, it is for the REV counter
LIGHT GREY with GREEN stripe goes to the CODE box (ECU pin 7)(wire colours match on ECU and CODE box connector!)
BLUE with GREEN stripe goes to the injector/engine management light (ECU pin 6)
LIGHT GREY with YELLOW stripe goes to the oil light
LIGHT GREY with BLACK stripe goes to the battery/Alternator light
LIGHT GREY only wire goes to the temperature gauge

you will need to use the fuel pump from the dona car as the panda fuel pump with not make enough pressure to feed the injector(s)

the immobiliser can be a pain. but if you get all the right bits and connect the wires up correct you should be fine.
you will need the ECU, CODE box, Aerial and key from the dona car. these must be all a matching set from one car.

the wiring on the CODE box is simple.
RED is constant battery live
Orange is ignition live
Black wire is a ground/earth
LIGHT GREY with GREEN stripe goes to the ECU (pin 7)
the remaining wire is the negative trigger to the "CODE" dashboard indicator light.

don't forget to tape the key THROUGH the loop aerial so it works every time!

when all this is connected. connect a battery to the car and see if the engine runs!


i hope this is of help to you :)


i should put this in the "how too" section!



Outstanding explanation mate(y)

I really appreciate all the help you provide and regarding electrics all is spot on....problem is...

like I stated before donor car is a Lancia Y 1.2 8v SELECTA:( and I'm only betting on this cause it's a really well serviced/taken cared of unit...it has an Auto gearbox and what troubles me is wether i can use my existing 1000 spi flywheel and crank sensor(if it has one!?) or do I need to source a Punto one in the breakers?

Regards

Diogo
 
To be honest, I hope that everything regarding this double conversion (auto to manual and Lancia Y to Panda engine swap) fits plug and play or with a bit of a fettle. Just asking advice to all you experts...:) so that everything goes well and fairly quick.

One other thing. The engine is a 1242 8v from a Lancia Y Auto with 60 hp. Will it be SPI or MPI?

The car is from late 90s (98 or so...)
 
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ME IS SLIGHTLY CONFUSED.
You say Lancia Y10 1.2
I had the Y10gtie 1.3 and the engine was similar to but not identical to a 1.2 'fire' engine.
John are you sure it will be a straightforward swap?
Dave
 
ME IS SLIGHTLY CONFUSED.
You say Lancia Y10 1.2
I had the Y10gtie 1.3 and the engine was similar to but not identical to a 1.2 'fire' engine.
John are you sure it will be a straightforward swap?
Dave

The o/p said a Lancia Y (Ypsilon), not a Y10 Dave. The Y is a newer model, so they are talking the equivalent of sticking a mk1 Punto 8v in a Panda. (y)

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancia_Ypsilon
 
looking at my video logs when i did the engine swap, the punto 1242cc and panda 999cc flywheels look identical.

i see no reason why you would not be able to use the 999cc flywheel on the 1242cc engine.

now as the electronics go, you "may" have to source a a different ECU as i am sure that FIRE engines ECU with a auto box, the gearbox has to tell the ECU what it is doing.

Pin number 5 on most Fire ECUs reads as follows:
"Pin 5 -Input - Automatic Gearbox ECU input Only.

my guess is that if it does not have the input, the engine runs as a normal manual shifted car.


you will have to modify the panda's 999cc exhaust down pipe to fit the taller engine. as the 1242cc engine is taller by 2cm than the 999cc.

this just means that you will have to cut the down pipe near the exhaust manifold flange and add 2cm worth of pipe to the length of the down pipe. then you will need to drill a hole a few cm down the pipe from where the 2 pipes join into one (the Y bit) and weld in a M18 fine thread nut for the lambda sensor. please see the following picture:

2014-09-02_21_43_34.jpg


sadly i do not show the Y bit. i never took a picture of that. will have to get one of it.

you may also find this video of me explaining and showing the 2 down pipes side by side helpful. note the short 999cc down pipe because i am working on a 4x4. your down pipe will also include the middle section of the exhaust.
if you gearbox is Cable driven (Not rods like the old pandas - like the 4x4 i am working on in the video) you may be able to use the punto down pipe?

i still think you would have get get an exhaust welded up.




hope this helps!
 
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Brilliant stuff guys


Once again thanks for all the help...

Yup it looks like the Lancia is indeed SPi which makes it easier for the conversion, however I also have my eye on a Lancia Y 1.2 16v and Fiat Punto MPI 75...

Nice to know that the flywheel is the same and can be used...:)

This is my Panda btw...


20141007_131019.jpg
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20141007_130948.jpg
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Just a thought....

since my 999 is already spi and comes with electrical fuel pump and electronic igniton, do I really need more stuff other than the engine? Can't I unplug all the wires and sensors from the panda and reconnect them to the new engine?:confused:
 
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