Questions to the ones who have actually replaced the head gasket..

did you re-use the head bolts?

how long did the repair last??

did you have the head skimmed???


Thanks in anticipation.


John H

I did the head gasket twice on my old M reg Panda.
The first time I did the bare minimum, cleaned the surfaces and put the new gasket on. This lasted six months, 5,000 miles.
It went again, so I did a proper job, skim, bolts, the lot, I knew the head was not cracked by then. Still going OK, as far as I know, after a year.
Previously, I have done head gaskets without a skim and had no trouble, luck of the draw I suppose.

Russ

Luck[^]...I don't think it's a decision of the Fate, it depends by how long and how much the head has been overheathed...I've heard of some blocks deformed too[:0]!Btw I wouldn't save up my money (in every way)if the car's intended to work for long, so...new bolts,gasket set(head,valves,camshaft), skimming,the appropriate tool.

P.s. which one of you Pandas is showing head-gasket problems?I'd guess the elder one!


Do I turn fast enough!?

No, oddly enough it's the younger one.
(which has 10K more miles on the clock, and an unknown number not on the clock..)

That Panda was always something of a poisoned chalice - but it was the best of a bad bunch in several weeks of looking, and it had got to the point of me needing another car before the roads got salty. The Morris 1000 doesn't do salt..

When I got it the heater didn't work, there was virtually clear water in the coolant, and it had a funny leak:
which turned out to be the steel pipe which goes into the back of the water pump.

Most of the water loss stopped when that pipe was replaced, but on odd occasions it would have lost quite a bit, with no obvious puddles.
It's possible the head was "kippered" a bit by that leak before we got it.

Lately the oil loss has been getting out of hand - I'd guess maybe 10cc dropped under the area of the oil filter, after the car has been stood for a few hours.
During the first few hours there is no loss, then when it has all cooled down the puddle appears. I think a gap opens up when cool[:0]

In addition to that, from cold, it will sometimes start on three cylinders, sometimes be easy to start, sometimes an absolute pig.
Possibly excess steam from the exhaust too.

It still doesn't go anywhere near as well as the old one (although it's a lot better than it was 13K miles on) either - although that one is carbed, as opposed to the CLX being injected.
One of these days I aught to do a comparitive compression test (cold might be revealing) - I've got a couple of different gauges in the garage which would do it.. But I seem to have little free time just now.



FWIW I can't decide how long to keep it going anyway[:0]

In addition to the above, the following items are very tired:
gearbox
front shock absorbers
front suspension arms (bushes clapped out)
Body shell (some evidence of tinworm in both boot outer edges - through from the outside)

The following items are getting towards replacement:
4 tyres.
Exhaust (which is a funny one, because the early '93 has the catalyser in the downpipe - which is quite rare - the exhaust it has at the moment is a testament to somebodys welding skills, as it is a collection of bits which probably don't belong together.
Drivers door - rear lower quarter: rusted through, again.

I suppose I don't want to pour cash into it, then have it fail on rot..


Decisions.


JH

i haven't done a panda gasket but was about to once, it was my dads old panda but he had ran it on just water when i took the head off it had all coroded away, so we just scrapped it.
Have done 1.2 8v punto used new bolts skimmed head (too lazy to clean) 20.000 miles later no problems

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Please do not Email or PM me asking for support. Post on the forums instead. Your reply may help someone else. Thank you

John - Sorry to hear the news. To quote you,

Beginning of the end for the Panda, then...

Click to expand...

I replaced my head gasket some time ago on my white Panda. I just cleaned the surfaces of gasket material and polished them up. I didn't need to have them skimmed, or to use new bolts.

I also replaced the rocker cover and exhaust manifold gaskets, as I've always believed once you remove a gasket then it's difficult to get them to seal properly again.

After 10,000 miles she was still running beautifully but then the gearbox went

Steve the geriatric Panda and Beagle freak

Thanks Steve - that's just the reply I was hoping for.

Might see if there is another 18 months in it then...
(MOT in 6 months)

Or even cannibalise the CL [:0]

There are a lot of other variables too which will come to a head, one way or the other, in a month or two.


Regards


John H

This is of interest as I've just been offered an immaculate 'L' blue Panda with a 'blown' head gasket.
I'm known locally as the Pandaman''''''''''but my interests really lie with the 4x4's.
Is this worth persuing as a project ? or is any-one else interested ? It's in West Yorkshire....and looks pretty.

HHmmmmmmm

It's a bit too far for me, but if the bodyshell is in good condition it could be worth it - if the price was right.

For a start it should have a brake servo as standard.

On the minus side the blown gasket may have killed the CAT with antifreeze.
At that age it should have the (cheaper) CAT under the car, rather than in the downpipe (like my early '93 "K" CLX) - but it is still more than some pay for a PandaB)

My gasket blew at 75k(ish).. I had it replaced but remember the machanic saying he didn't skim it (i'm not intelligent enough to do it myself ;p). Its now 3 years later and on 104k, still gets red lined on a bypass every day on way to work, got me to slovakia last year.. will get me there this year too ;p ..(999fire/injection)

Thank you. I'll at least go and se it now !
Perhaps the doors will 'do' for the Sisely project..............

HHmmmmmmm

I suppose I don't want to pour cash into it, then have it fail on rot..

Click to expand...

<font face="Book Antiqua">This is the same thing me and my dad have been discussing...our Panda is an 12y.o. car without any commercial value, and there are a few things that need repair,as clutch,rear shocks,probably the front arms and/or an outer joint...but is it worth to look for another 2nd hand car with an unknown history[^][?]Or the right way's to do the necessary jobs by ourselves 'till it's possible?</font id="Book Antiqua">


Do I turn fast enough!?

Hi,
Hard choice.
Personally, I would stick by the Panda through thick and thin. I love its simplicity and low costs as well as all of the 'fun'.
When looking at other cars, stop and think awhile: can you find the engine, can you fix it with sellotape, will it get you home no matter how badley you drive it ? The answer is NO..............so; rebuild the Panda-------you know it makes sense !

HHmmmmmmm

Oh, and John, don't forget to replace the timing belt! It might be worth replacing the alternator drive belt too as you will be messing about in that area ...

Steve the geriatric Panda and Beagle freak

Voice of experience, Steve...

Thanks.

Well, here we are - nearly a year on, and I finally did the deed today: the oil loss was getting out of hand, and the "starting on three" was beyond a joke.

I took the head off, and there was significant corrosion actually blocking part the waterways, and some obvious signs of gasket failure into #1, and it had a generally nasty look about it which didn't seem to polish off with one of those kitchen "green scrubbing cloths".
I'm wasn't sure how it would respond to a skim - so I took the head off the expired CLs engine.... that cleaned up quite well, and has obviously had good antifreeze in for most of its life.

It's taken me nearly all day to clean everything up to my satisfaction, bits of me I'd forgotten about hurt, and I've still got to get the ignition timing right and finish bleeding the cooling*, but it's back together, and it runs.

Out of interest, for anyone thinking of going the opposite way with a head change:
when I removed the head mounted petrol pump off the CL head, took out the small steel pin which drives the pump, and removed the blanking plate of the original injected CLX head there was no hole for the steel pin on the head off the injected engine despite there being the studs for a petrol pump.


Regards


John H

* no prizes for guessing that the heater doesn't work at the moment, but I want the silicone on the camshaft gasket corners to cure before I really play, and see if it was worth the effort

Hi John what marks did you use to set the top dead centre for the camshaft. I know there is a mark on the cam sprocket buts its a pig to see and line up properly. Also did you have trouble with the little metal "dowels" that locate the head on the block. When i did mine they had quite ragged ends and were a pain to get properley settled in the block. Oh yeah and when you have to angle tighten thr bolts through 90 degrees did you approximate that with your torque wrench or has it got a gauge. Ive done the head gasket experience once and its blown again

On a FIAT belt there are a pair of yellow stripes which line up with the line on the outer edge of the camshaft sprocket (which should be at the 9-o-clock position viewed end on), and a corresponding line on the end of the crank sprocket.

The position for the crank sprocket marker is around the 10-o-clock postion, but as the engine was TDC on #1 when the head was put back on the only doubt was the camshaft position.

Visibility for the crankshaft marker isn't ideal, but with the little plastic cover removed for access to the alternator drive pulley bolts, I don't think there was much doubt when it was all lined up.

The little hollow dowels were interesting - I lost one (assuming it had two when I took it to bits) - but managed to extract another off the donor block, using a nut driver which was a nice tight fit inside, and wiggling it about until it came off.
Once both dowels were located on the head, the gasket went on easily, and the head wasn't much bother - considering I had the throttle body dangling by wires from the bonnet vent, as I couldn't be bothered to un-plumb it all.

Regarding the bolts, and tightening - I chose the ten bolts with cleanest threads with decent heads out of the twenty. Cleaned the threads up with "white spirit" and a brass bristled wire brush, then dried them off, and then soaked them in oil and left them to drain off for 30 mins.
Meanwhile I checked another clean bolt into each of the threaded holes in the block to make sure they were clear all the way down: "VAX" with a straw held on the end of the nozzle got some gasket debris out of a few of them.

Finally the tightening - torque wrench, yes.
Angle gauge, no - but with a ratchet drive I can line up my start position with the arm straight out of the car towards me, and turn until it lines up along the length of the engine.
Might be a degree or two out, but (hopefully) near enough.
(note the choice of position above suits me as a left-hander).

Time will tell if it was worth the effort, and how long it will last, but first impressions are good

When it gets dark enough for my rather feeble neon "strobe" to be useful I'll do the timing.

I took the battery out to prime the heater matrix, and the heater is good again.
The temperature gauge seems less lively too. (It was prone to twitching about when things warmed up a bit).

Hi, did mine at Christmas on a 1108cc "FIRE" (similar to panda i think)

Questions

1) Yes I re-used the head bolts

2) Repair took me about 4 days - (but am a complete novice and probably spent more time cleaning than i needed too!)

3) No, didn't skim the head (I hadn't overheated mine and i think you really need to cook your engine for extended periods to warp the head enough to not be taken up by the gasket)

I also used genuine parts from fiat, the gasket set i got looked much better quality than others i have seen.

4000 miles since and going strong

Hope this helps

Phil