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General Battery Not Charging?

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General Battery Not Charging?

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umanemo

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This is a continuation of the "Battery Idiot Lamp Ablaze" thread.

There are fuses all around the battery on my 2000 Ducati 2.8 jtd - X230. As described in the thread my charging all of the sudden went blank and no batteries in my system are receiving a charge. Alternator is relatively new, 2yrs., batteries only 6 mos. old and belt is tight.

Is there a fuse that intervenes between the battery and alternator?

Any direction would be appreciated as I am going under the hood.
 
There is a thinner cable to the alternator (D+ ?) which the alternator regulator monitors to regulate the output to the battery through the thicker cable.

I can't remember what happens if this fails but it would be worth checking. AFAIK it should show battery voltage when the ignition is on.
 
Alternator has no output from main terminal just shows battery state, 12.4 volts, same voltage as when motor is off.

D+ = 1.2 volts, when alternator is spinning but 0 volts when motor is off.

Alternator has/had no issues until A/C short started. It is only 2 years old.

What could be holding the D+ terminal down at the other end of the wire?
 
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Well I know what it isn't. The big main fuse is okay. Those two 50A fuses just to the side of the battery were OK. I tested the 50A relay on the radiator fans and all is okey dokey. Now for some reason the A/C cycles the radiator fans on and off with out shorting or pulling the whole electrical system down. A/C good again.

All is good except no charge current from alternator? The alternator was the casualty not the cause. Anyone know what's going on?

BTW, what is they turquoise/greenish box do (see last photo)
 

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Your green box is your glow plug timer and relay.
The problem with no charge is as you have said a faulty alternator. Fix it or change it for a good one.
Disconnect the thin wire at alternator, turn key so warning lights on but engine not running, is the charge light off?
Don't reconnect anything yet or turn key off, measure voltage at thin wire going to alternator, is it battery voltage?
 
That sounds like solid advice. Will tackle the problem again tomorrow.

Right now I am trying not to burn the burger's! Let's see if I can do something right today.

Thanks for the lead will let you know the results as soon as there are any to report.
 
No worries , apart from jealousy due to burgers. Just for that I shall increase cost of free advice by 200%.
 
jackwhoo said:
Your green box is your glow plug timer and relay.
The problem with no charge is as you have said a faulty alternator. Fix it or change it for a good one.
Disconnect the thin wire at alternator, turn key so warning lights on but engine not running, is the charge light off?
Don't reconnect anything yet or turn key off, measure voltage at thin wire going to alternator, is it battery voltage?
Click to expand...

If the thin wire doesn't show any voltage then can I run a jumper from the battery+ to the D+ for a test?
 
Yes but don't leave it connected that way .
With key on The thin wire is +ve from the charge warning light. So when thin wire disconnected warning light should not be on.
 
jackwhoo said:
Yes but don't leave it connected that way .
With key on The thin wire is +ve from the charge warning light. So when thin wire disconnected warning light should not be on.
Click to expand...

That reminds me that on older vehicles a failed warning light would stop the alternator charging but don't know if this is still the case?
 
The alternator energising from / through the warning light is a fabulous system, almost fool proof.
I have asked OP to do a couple of checks that should show if it is this system.
I had a Volvo s60 with computer controlled system , charge light came on while on long motorway trip, it went out again after 20 mins (computer just got bored I guess)
later total electrical failure due to flat battery.
I would rather have the old system any day it's trustworthy.
 
umanemo said:
Well I know what it isn't. The big main fuse is okay. Those two 50A fuses just to the side of the battery were OK. I tested the 50A relay on the radiator fans and all is okey dokey. Now for some reason the A/C cycles the radiator fans on and off with out shorting or pulling the whole electrical system down. A/C good again.

All is good except no charge current from alternator? The alternator was the casualty not the cause. Anyone know what's going on?

BTW, what is they turquoise/greenish box do (see last photo)
Click to expand...

Okey-dokey, I am back again. Sorry for the delay.

The 26 month old "new" alternator was kaput. Apparently something on the "circuit board" according to the alternator shop technician. So 246€ later they handed me back my alternator all refurbished. They replaced the board, brushes and cleaned it up. The windings were okay.

When I got it back in it tested out okay. 14.1 output and 13.6 under load with the A/C running.

But I am afraid that I have something still remaining out of sorts. I find that even when driving two or more hours that a reading of the battery showing 12.4v before starting the motor and 13.4v immediately after starting still only reaches 13.8 or so.

Only after charging the battery on solar or grid to full capacity (14.2 then 13.8 float) do I see the alternator charge at 14.1 v again.

Also, when the motor (alternator) is running, the A/C current demand is pulling the battery down to 13.3v and then 12.7v when the condenser/radiator fans kick in.

If the battery starts out at a low state initially say 12.4v then even the circulation fan on setting 3 is pulled so low that it seems like it is set on 1. Could this alternator (120A) still be defective? Shouldn't it be able to output enough current for that start and leisure battery, A/C, running and head lamps and fridge to be happy?
 
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umanemo said:
Okey-dokey, I am back again. Sorry for the delay.

The 26 month old "new" alternator was kaput. Apparently something on the "circuit board" according to the alternator shop technician. So 246€ later they handed me back my alternator all refurbished. They replaced the board, brushes and cleaned it up. The windings were okay.

When I got it back in it tested out okay. 14.1 output and 13.6 under load with the A/C running.

But I am afraid that I have something still remaining out of sorts. I find that even when driving two or more hours that a reading of the battery showing 12.4v before starting the motor and 13.4v immediately after starting still only reaches 13.8 or so.

Only after charging the battery on solar or grid to full capacity (14.2 then 13.8 float) do I see the alternator charge at 14.1 v again.

Also, when the motor (alternator) is running, the A/C current demand is pulling the battery down to 13.3v and then 12.7v when the condenser/radiator fans kick in.

If the battery starts out at a low state initially say 12.4v then even the circulation fan on setting 3 is pulled so low that it seems like it is set on 1. Could this alternator (120A) still be defective? Shouldn't it be able to output enough current for that start and leisure battery, A/C, running and head lamps and fridge to be happy?
Click to expand...
How old are your batteries?
 
Okay, I have isolated the start battery. The leisure batterys were confusing the situation.

When static the start battery reads 12.7v and when running 14.4 but when A/C and fans are running;12.9/13.0v

But 12.9/13.0 only showed up since I removed and cleaned the fans shared 50A fuse just above the center of the battery.

Before cleaning the fuse I only was reading 12.1! (With A/C running and radiator fans blowing)

BTW. I replaced this fuse when I replaced the alternator because it was melting the plastic around the fuse itself. It had some resistance somewhere at the fuse socket obviously. I cleaned up the terminals back then and installed a new fuse. But the condition returned shortly after. Now again after pulling and replacing the fuse today everything appears normal. If 12.9v is normal with the fans running?
 
Last edited:
umanemo said:
Okay, I have isolated the start battery. The leisure batterys were confusing the situation.

When static the start battery reads 12.7v and when running 14.4 but when A/C and fans are running;12.9/13.0v

But 12.9/13.0 only showed up since I removed and cleaned the fans shared 50A fuse just above the center of the battery.

Before cleaning the fuse I only was reading 12.1! (With A/C running and radiator fans blowing)

BTW. I replaced this fuse when I replaced the alternator because it was melting the plastic around the fuse itself. It had some resistance somewhere at the fuse socket obviously. I cleaned up the terminals back then and installed a new fuse. But the condition returned shortly after. Now again after pulling and replacing the fuse today everything appears normal. If 12.9v is normal with the fans running?
Click to expand...

Hi,
12.9V will not charge the battery, but could be normal if the engine is at idle. If you bring the engie up to 1500-2000 RPM the voltage shoud be at least 13.9V. The fuse holder that has uverheated must be replaced. Oxidation, low contact pressure due to deformed plastic an all lead to repeated problems. One other thing to check is the pulley size on the alternator. If a larger one was fitted when the alternator was changed it may be running slow.

Robert G8RPI.
 
Thanks!
I figured that the fuse socket needs attention. That's first on my tick list.

I do wish to ask if you know or think that the radiator fans are demanding too much current? Pulling the charging voltage back to 12.6 from 13.9 does seem like quite a demand. But I have never before measured this activity so I do not know that this has been the status all along since new.

It is a "ZFA230..." 2001 Ducato so she is bound to have failures here and there. The leisure batterys do also add to that demand. If I hadn't just rebuilt the alternator I would opt to install a higher amperage output alternator. Instead I will find the aftermarket relay under the dash that the motorcaravan coach builders installed that isolates/joins the start battery with the leisures and add a second relay that opens the circuit from the ignition when the radiator fans are called to come on. That way isolating the start battery from the leisures when that demand is so high.

It's a start.
 
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Robert asks, when fans start due to air-conditioning demand and you raise engine rpms to around 1500-2000 what is voltage at battery?
 
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