We have a Ducato 2.8JTD / Hymer motorhome which we bought at 33000 miles. We had the engine remapped to 165bhp and immediately had clutch slip. Fair enough, not knowing the clutch history so we had it replaced. 3000 miles later it needed replacing again.

Have now done about 3000 miles again on this one and me and my mechanic are totally baffled as it either slips...or if only backed off slightly will not engage gear. He tells me its a pull clutch and that although this shouldn't make much difference Fiat didn't have much luck with these.

I would be grateful for any suggestions on why there is no free play and if we replace it again...what with. This sort of clutch life can't be right??!!

Thanks.

Jedzilla said:

We have a Ducato 2.8JTD / Hymer motorhome which we bought at 33000 miles. We had the engine remapped to 165bhp and immediately had clutch slip. Fair enough, not knowing the clutch history so we had it replaced. 3000 miles later it needed replacing again.

Have now done about 3000 miles again on this one and me and my mechanic are totally baffled as it either slips...or if only backed off slightly will not engage gear. He tells me its a pull clutch and that although this shouldn't make much difference Fiat didn't have much luck with these.

I would be grateful for any suggestions on why there is no free play and if we replace it again...what with. This sort of clutch life can't be right??!!

Thanks.

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The standard clutch is only rated for 340nm who knows what you're putting through it now, did you get a dyno test with your remap or just some cowboy with a laptop.

Ok thanks for that. A cowboy with a laptop! Maybe best just to put it back into slug mode and sell

Jedzilla said:

Ok thanks for that. A cowboy with a laptop! Maybe best just to put it back into slug mode and sell

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Without a dyno you're buying a pig in a poke can't blame fiat for letting someone put unknown rubbish in your ecu, a reasonable remap willmake it drivable without breaking anything.

Thanks mate. Makes sense i will look into it. Also just wondering if there is an uprated clutch? Still baffling about the lack of freeplay tho - any ideas on that? Cheers

165 BHP is too much, especially if you are heavy footed.


I have a 5 tonne Burstner Tag Axle van with the 2.8 jtd engine. At 38,000 miles, the clutch is still OK (despite the former owner towing a WW2 Jeep behind it). I am sure that I could induce some clutch slip if I tried, that is why I drive with a light right foot.


You cannot expect sports car performance from a motorhome and I have to ask, why do you want so much extra power? Learn to chill when you drive it. Take your time and enjoy the trip. Remember that your fuel consumption rises as the square of the speed, slow down and save money while you are driving a vehicle that is shaped like a brick.


In RHD, the 2.8 engine is rated at 127 BHP (in LHD around 142 BHP). Get it remapped for a little more power and economy. My van has a Tunit Box fitted to give extra power but I have the jumper set about halfway to give a bit more power, not maximum power.


Another thing that comes to mind is your Insurance. You need to inform your Insurance company when you have a remap. They will not charge you anything extra providing the increase in power is moderate. Yours could be around 25% or more and could give the Insurance the get out they need in the event of an accident.

Thank you mate. Very helpful as I was thinking along those lines. Will enquire into having it remapped to less power this week.

I don't have a particularly heavy right foot and yes you are right there is no need to rush when camping. The reason we had it remapped was because it has quite a high 5th gear so had to cane it in 4th to get above about 2700 revs in 5th where it would pull ok. Pulls alot better since remapping but clutch is now become the weak link. Nice not to have to change down on hills so much as well ...but we need to find a compromise!

Good point about the insurance - hadn't thought about that so will let them know once power is reduced.

Thanks for you time in replying.

I would be very concerned about lack of free play in the pedal, that means the release bearing is active all the time and possibly preventing the clutch from being fully engaged. I would expect a clutch to last a lot longer even if more power was put through it unless it was being abused all the time. I recently replaced a clutch in my Ulysse at 117K miles and it had been a taxi before I bought it at 77 K. That vehicle had been chipped before I got it so it is probably about equal to the power increase you are putting through the Ducato.

Jedzilla said:

Thank you mate. Very helpful as I was thinking along those lines. Will enquire into having it remapped to less power this week.

I don't have a particularly heavy right foot and yes you are right there is no need to rush when camping. The reason we had it remapped was because it has quite a high 5th gear so had to cane it in 4th to get above about 2700 revs in 5th where it would pull ok. Pulls alot better since remapping but clutch is now become the weak link. Nice not to have to change down on hills so much as well ...but we need to find a compromise!

Good point about the insurance - hadn't thought about that so will let them know once power is reduced.

Thanks for you time in replying.

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Mine also has the 'long' 5th gear but cruises OK at around 2,000 rpm in 5th, which is about 56 mph. I generally limit my revs to between 2,000 to 3,000 rpm. If I am changing up, I go to 3,000 then change up. This is good for all the gears. I am also careful not to let the revs drop off much below 2,000 rpm when in 5th. The maximum torque is allegedly at 1,800 rpm but I believe it is too low for general running and will affect mpg also.

YES - it sounds like you are putting a fair load through it..
but the modern friction material in the clutch can be a git to "bed-in" properly,

we had 3 x new genuine clutches under warranty on a " super powerful" panda 1.1 = @ 60HP

mentioned it to a knowledgable friend, :worship:
he said the BWM Mini's were having the same issue,
so more of a materials issue , than down to FIAT's design

once we got one to bed-in correctly it's covered 60 K without issue,

I hope that was useful..

charlie

Original clutch will be rated to transmit all the power of the original spec engine, and have a small margin. To transmit more torque will need a larger diameter friction plate, different friction material, heavier spring pressure or a combination of these. Heavier spring will mean heavier pedal, so margin is kept low. You appear to have raised the torque too high.

Don't know what the mechanic means by a "pull" clutch. Probably a red herring.
I assume it is cable operated, perhaps this is what he meant. There should be some free play to prevent the bearing pressing all the time, which would cause slip. Have you replaced the whole clutch, or just the centre plate? If you have "saved" money by replacing the centre plate only, that may be a contributory factor. A slipping clutch creates heat, which can temper the diaphragm spring, reducing its tension, so reducing the torque capacity. Oops!

Hey guys. Thank you for the useful replies. I will speak to my mechanic about the release bearing. The clutch is cable operated but this is not what he meant by a pull clutch. He did explain it to me but it went over my head to be honest! Anyway as you say probably irrelevant. I think the whole clutch including pressure plate was replaced but will find out for sure.

I spoke to the guy who mapped it and he said unlikely to be to do with the power although he would happily charge me to put it back to standard if I wanted. So maybe would make sense to get clutch stripped first and see what is going on with the lack of freeplay and wear situation and uprate it perhaps.
Thanks again all

Jedzilla said:

The clutch is cable operated but this is not what he meant by a pull clutch.

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The cable is supposed to be adjusted so that the pedal is level with the brake pedal rather than so there is free play (I recollect that the clutch diaphragm fingers do normally 'rest' on the release bearing)

However when I adjusted mine I double-checked that I was able to move the clutch operating arm slightly against the return 'spring' by hand before it actually started to release the plate. This 'free play' was about 2 to 3 cms at the cable end of the arm IMRC

On ours the clutch pedal is probably 10cm above the brake - if it is level it won't disengage enough to change gear. Have never thought that was right! we don't have any free play either at the clutch arm...all very tight. Cheers.

portland_bill said:

Don't know what the mechanic means by a "pull" clutch. Probably a red herring.

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From Wikipedia:
Push/Pull
Friction-disc clutches generally are classified as push type or pull type depending on the location of the pressure plate fulcrum points. In a pull-type clutch, the action of pressing the pedal pulls the release bearing, pulling on the diaphragm spring and disengaging the vehicle drive. The opposite is true with a push type, the release bearing is pushed into the clutch disengaging the vehicle drive.

Thanks well clarified Steve. Good ole wiki.

Did it give a picture of a pull clutch? I'm struggling to imagine it.

Maybe this image will help (if it uploads). As you said earlier though....probably a red herring!

Jedzilla said:

Maybe this image will help (if it uploads). As you said earlier though....probably a red herring!

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Thanks for that, makes a lot of sense, especially for modern diesels with high torque outputs. Quite likely little or no free play in the system, so might be easy to leave it with tension all the time, so causing slip.

Ok thanks all. I still need to find out what was replaced last time and take it from there