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Technical 1.4 8 valve sei

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Technical 1.4 8 valve sei

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NUGGY

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Sep 16, 2007
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batley, west yorkshire
i've just got hold of a 1.4 8 valve punto gp block which i'm going to fit my p75 head to i've sorted the compression out, just need to sort the timing gear and water pump out to make them compatable with the p75 timing gear and belt, i'll let you all know how it goes, if anyone else has tried this feed back would be very welcome:)
 
I am not sure about this particular combination, but 1.4 8V has been done in PL before, even one with a turbo and LPG. This one though was blown to pieces very quickly (the owner tends to under/overtune his engines, not the first and not the last one he blew).
 
mine will be balanced up and naturally aspirated, though i have seen a few T jets for sale recently, but thats for another day, i'll just get it going and take it from there :)
 
Good luck with this one. I hope you don't need it, but things you need to know, if you don't already, are:

1) The crankshaft is larger in diameter at the pulley end, so you can't use the earlier pulley system to match the original Ecu.
2) The camshafts are not the same between these engines, so the cam pulleys may not interchange and set the valve timing to optimum? I have not tried this yet.
3) The phonic wheels (auxiliary pulleys) are not set the same with reference to the missing teeth and ignition timing. Even a 1 degree change could create knock if the compression ratio is increased also, but do you have a knock sensor to compensate for this, and are the map settings correctly set for this deviation?
4) The GP engines pistons are of a different design and create a higher compression ratio, so will most likely create an interference engine with your new head.
5) The new Euro 5 engines are a pain in the ass because of Fiats unification programme and are pretty much, not backward compatiple.
 
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I think point 5) matters the most :D It's a damn good point though (y)
 
cc1 said:
Good luck with this one. I hope you don't need it, but things you need to know, if you don't already, are:

1) The crankshaft is larger in diameter at the pulley end, so you can't use the earlier pulley system to match the original Ecu.
2) The camshafts are not the same between these engines, so the cam pulleys may not interchange and set the valve timing to optimum? I have not tried this yet.
3) The phonic wheels (auxiliary pulleys) are not set the same with reference to the missing teeth and ignition timing. Even a 1 degree change could create knock if the compression ratio is increased also, but do you have a knock sensor to compensate for this, and are the map settings correctly set for this deviation?
4) The GP engines pistons are of a different design and create a higher compression ratio, so will most likely create an interference engine with your new head.
5) The new Euro 5 engines are a pain in the ass because of Fiats unification programme and are pretty much, not backward compatiple.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the input mate an engineer friend of mine is going to look at both crank timing gears to make them fit so i can use all the P75 set up, the compression will be 10:1 which is only slightly above P75 compression everything fits ok, so it will be a matter of getting it to run smoothly, fingers crossed (i can always set the cam timing with a dial guage :)
 
NUGGY said:
Thanks for the input mate an engineer friend of mine is going to look at both crank timing gears to make them fit so i can use all the P75 set up, the compression will be 10:1 which is only slightly above P75 compression everything fits ok, so it will be a matter of getting it to run smoothly, fingers crossed (i can always set the cam timing with a dial guage :)
Click to expand...


If the engineer has problems, you can fit the newer Seicento oil pump, whilst using the older Mpi cam pulley and the newer crank and auxiliary pulley, along with the GP cambelt.


[/QUOTE]The 2005 Seicento has an oil pump with the same seal part No; as the 1242 with the larger crank. I have ordered one from Poland complete with new drive gear, which at present, comes to £126 for a complete pump. Fiat part No: 55205333, and Fiat part No: 55205336 for the drive gear @ £17. I have also ordered the alternator drive pulley 55181185 to match, as the holes have been shifted a few degrees.
The early Spi auxiliary pulley might run better depending on the Ecu fitted, ideally the Punto 75 one or DET3?


Might be worth a read if you have not seen it: https://www.fiatforum.com/cinquecento-seicento/313034-new-era.html
Click to expand...
 
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cc1 said:
If the engineer has problems, you can fit the newer Seicento oil pump, whilst using the older Mpi cam pulley and the newer crank and auxiliary pulley, along with the GP cambelt.
Click to expand...
The 2005 Seicento has an oil pump with the same seal part No; as the 1242 with the larger crank. I have ordered one from Poland complete with new drive gear, which at present, comes to £126 for a complete pump. Fiat part No: 55205333, and Fiat part No: 55205336 for the drive gear @ £17. I have also ordered the alternator drive pulley 55181185 to match, as the holes have been shifted a few degrees.
The early Spi auxiliary pulley might run better depending on the Ecu fitted, ideally the Punto 75 one or DET3?


Might be worth a read if you have not seen it: https://www.fiatforum.com/cinquecento-seicento/313034-new-era.html
Click to expand...
new development, i have fitted the p75 bottom pulley/timing wheel to the 1.4 cambelt gear(this gear has the same timing mark as the 1.2 gear) and i have fitted a 2004 1.2 punto cam gear to the p75 cam/head, everything bolts up ok and the crank sensor fits, so i now have a 1.4 p75 engine ready to fit, just need to sort out my gearbox now and re-fit itall :)
 
Things are looking good.
smile.gif


Did you compare both the GP and 75 crank drive pulleys nib positions, with reference to TDC?
S7321.JPG
 
Last edited:
cc1 said:
Things are looking good.
smile.gif


Did you compare both the GP and 75 crank drive pulleys nib positions, with reference to TDC?
S7321.JPG
Click to expand...
Yes did that all line up ok, valve timing lines up and the timing wheel/alternator lines up with the crank sensor and all looks good (1.4 8v block with p75 timing wheel for ignition, 1.4 water pump, 2005 1.2 punto cam wheel and p75 head/cam + multi layered steel head gasket (all looks good but will see when it comes to firing it all up) so fingers crossed :)
 
cc1 said:
Good luck with this one. I hope you don't need it, but things you need to know, if you don't already, are:

1) The crankshaft is larger in diameter at the pulley end, so you can't use the earlier pulley system to match the original Ecu.
2) The camshafts are not the same between these engines, so the cam pulleys may not interchange and set the valve timing to optimum? I have not tried this yet.
3) The phonic wheels (auxiliary pulleys) are not set the same with reference to the missing teeth and ignition timing. Even a 1 degree change could create knock if the compression ratio is increased also, but do you have a knock sensor to compensate for this, and are the map settings correctly set for this deviation?
4) The GP engines pistons are of a different design and create a higher compression ratio, so will most likely create an interference engine with your new head.
5) The new Euro 5 engines are a pain in the ass because of Fiats unification programme and are pretty much, not backward compatiple.
Click to expand...
i forgot to mention the bottom pulley fits directly to the 1.4 crank gear which has same cam timing marks as the p75, so cam and ignition timing will be fine, also the 1.4 has bigger pockets in the pistons than on the p75 and smaller combustion chambers in the head, so than lowers the compression to around 10.2:1, higher than a p75 and lower than the 1.4 with its own cylinder head, :) just going to see if i can swap the oil pick up pipes over as the 1.4 has a plastic one (the 1.2 and 1.4 share the same sump)
 
It would be good to have some pictures with how things align and for the clearance with the belt to engine mount.
Also some documenting of components used to make a how to guide for others interested in doing it.
smile.gif


It's good that others are having a go with these engines, as good old types are hard to come by now. It's a shame the Punto 75 injection system has to be used as these are rather dated and becoming rare. But, there isn't really anything else that will bolt straight on. The TB will be the restriction for your engine though. I'm still looking at a better solution for mine for the inlet manifold setup but may have to go custom with some of it, which is expensive.
cry.gif
 
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cc1 said:
It would be good to have some pictures with how things align. Also for the clearance with the belt to engine mount.
It's good that others are having a go with these engines, as good old types are hard to come by now. It's a shame the Punto 75 injection system has to be used as these are rather dated and becoming rare. But, there isn't really anything else that will bolt straight on. The TB will be the restriction for your engine.
Click to expand...
i will try get some picks, yes standard p75 set up but i have made an adapter to fit a 46mm TB of a 1.6.16v marea (i have access to a lathe and turned down a piece of 75mm alloy bar to change it from 2 bolt to 3 bolt fixing )i have had it on for 12 months with the 1.2, still haven't taken engine mount off old block yet thats the next bit on my list :)
 
NUGGY said:
i will try get some picks, yes standard p75 set up but i have made an adapter to fit a 46mm TB of a 1.6.16v marea (i have access to a lathe and turned down a piece of 75mm alloy bar to change it from 2 bolt to 3 bolt fixing )i have had it on for 12 months with the 1.2, still haven't taken engine mount off old block yet thats the next bit on my list :)
Click to expand...
That's the thing I was looking at having made for mine with regard to the adaptor/spacer.
The combined Air/Map sensor and carbon canister solenoid is another issue for me, so another wiring loom will probably have to be made.
 
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cc1 said:
That's the thing I was looking at having made for mine with regard to the adaptor/spacer.
The combined Air/Map sensor and carbon canister solenoid is anther issue for me, so another wiring loom will probably have to be made.
Click to expand...
yours is post 2001 mpi, mine is 98 spi converted to p75 mpi (just swapped the ecu and connected the injector wires to the 2 spi wires and moved a few pipes, took about 3 hours + swapping engine and fuel pump) thats why i kept this car and didn't get a newer model
 
cc1 said:
Good luck with this one. I hope you don't need it, but things you need to know, if you don't already, are:

1) The crankshaft is larger in diameter at the pulley end, so you can't use the earlier pulley system to match the original Ecu.
2) The camshafts are not the same between these engines, so the cam pulleys may not interchange and set the valve timing to optimum? I have not tried this yet.
3) The phonic wheels (auxiliary pulleys) are not set the same with reference to the missing teeth and ignition timing. Even a 1 degree change could create knock if the compression ratio is increased also, but do you have a knock sensor to compensate for this, and are the map settings correctly set for this deviation?
4) The GP engines pistons are of a different design and create a higher compression ratio, so will most likely create an interference engine with your new head.
5) The new Euro 5 engines are a pain in the ass because of Fiats unification programme and are pretty much, not backward compatiple.
Click to expand...
an update, the bottom pulley with pick up for the ECU, there are 2 types 1 with pickup on the inside of the pulley and one on the outside (mine is on the inside closest to the block) and all the wheels pick up points are the same as they are to tell the ECU where the crank is mechanically, top dead centre is after all the same on all engines the differences for the actual running of the engine are determined by the ECU the mechanical values are fixes hope this helps
 
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