I can't believe this thread was started almost 18 months ago! Where does the time go?

So, the 1.8 T-Jet we were told about didn't happen, nor did the GT model, but the 2.0 165 MultiJet did.

And it was so successful (insert blatant sarcasm smiley here) that you can now pick up a brand new unregistered Sport for under £13k.

If Fiat have to discount the 'flagship' model so heavily just to sell it the future of the model can't be that bright, surely?

Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of Bravo (I'm on my fourth already) but looking at it from a rational perspective it can't make economic sense for any manufacturer to continue trying to compete with the likes of the Focus, Astra, Golf etc when they have to lose money to do so?

You don't need to raid Fred Goodwin's pension fund to buy any car at the moment! Also, you are only considering Fiat's performance in the UK. The company can't be in that bad shape if they are taking over bits of chrysler.

Fords etc. are very heavily discounted too and Fiat's market share in Europe is increasing.

The Bravo is arguably the best looking car in its segment but, in the British market at least, it has various blocks to universal acceptance:

1. It is fiat. To many this means small cars only, rust, and unreliability. The end!

2. It has a variable guarantee: is it three year or is it five? Confusion is not good for confidence and with the Koreans offering five and seven years for a good product Fiat has its work cut out.

3. It has poor rear leg room and a compromised seating position. I don't want to re-enter a discussion about the Bravo's driver comfort, but Fiat should be aware that if some drivers can't find a decent seating position they'll look elsewhere. And with the driver's seat set for lanky people the back is fit only for small children.

4. There is no estate option.

5. The initial reviews were, as usual, sometimes lukewarm. In the sixties and seventies a new Fiat was met with near universal excitement and positivity. The rust and unreliability issues since then have tarnished the marque's reputation and image.

6. Fiat still seems to offer low powered versions of new models for testing and keeps the market waiting too long for the best engines. By the time these arrive the car is stale and the original reviews stick in the public perception.

7. Dealers are often not the best.

Notwithstanding the above, the 500 has brought a new group of people into the showrooms, as was intended. It is up to the company to profit from this. My own belief is that in a year's time, with new and revised Fiat and Alfa models and a great press following the release of the new power plants, sales will take off. But it does depend on a savvy dealer network and better advertising.

selling more bravos than GP's at the moment, never had a customer say to me that they wish they never brought the bravo. Loads hire companies using them now aswell.

i find the bravo seating position perfectly adequate for me at 5.11.... and my mum of 5.10 can sit behind me in perfect comfort

the seats are also very comfy and supportive...

the boot is huge as well and a great shape (if it has a high lip)... in comparison the other day at work i was loading up the laguna estate with the load cover down with catalogues and folders etc.... and managed to actually get more in the bravos boot due it being deeper and not that much shorter (i had a boring lunch )

the engine is perfectly adequate... and settles down at a nice 2000rpm in silence at a 70ish motorway cruise, the cruise control is also loverly to rest my feet which needs to be done lots these days

the climate control system, although not the best, is good enough to keep my car cool during the sunny days and doesnt zap any of the power as it felt like the air-con did in my other cars.

Have to say, there's been quite a pickup in the number of Bravo's I see on my travels.

No-one can see the maserati blue 150 sport model in a showroom and not agree that it's gorgeous.

The GP I was told is their bread and butter. 500 bringing in the mini/showoff customers and the Bravo is their suprise that they see in the showroom.

iv owned my bravo now for about 4 months (1.9multijet active 120), before this i had a 1.2 active and i have to say the bravo is better looking than most similar size cars on the market at the minute and performance is brilliant had it 120ish on motorway and still got good mpg and the boot is massive for the leg room you get in the back. iv compared this to my fiancees dads 56plate megane and the bravo wins hands down apart from the bravo aircon is rubbish compared to the renault. Only thing which annoyed me was the gp active came with steering wheel controls yet the active bravo dosnt which is easily solved with a leather steering wheel out of a sport

T14086 said:

selling more bravos than GP's at the moment

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Our Fiat Zone Manager keeps telling me how well they sell north of the border. Odd, isn't it?

T14086 said:

never had a customer say to me that they wish they never brought the bravo.

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Nor me. Not many buy them down here, but those that do all love them.

T14086 said:

Loads hire companies using them now aswell.

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Having seen how cheaply they can buy them I'm not surprised. Hire companies have no loyalty to any one model or even manufacturer, they buy purely on the basis of cost.

fenton_jd said:

No-one can see the maserati blue 150 sport model in a showroom and not agree that it's gorgeous.

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Totally agree. That's why I'm on my second

Scrogg said:

Our Fiat Zone Manager keeps telling me how well they sell north of the border. Odd, isn't it?

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better taste Perhaps its because we have less traffic, longer open roads?

Scrogg said:

Having seen how cheaply they can buy them I'm not surprised. Hire companies have no loyalty to any one model or even manufacturer, they buy purely on the basis of cost.

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True but I believe (please anyone prove me wrong) that councils/health boards etc tend to buy vehicles from all local garages wethers in the past it was soley ford or vauxhall etc. Hire companies with problematic cars tend to be sorted out quicker in some respects (as are taxis) as the cars are needed on the road & they buy alot of cars so good service/turnaround is a must.

Once I got the rattle sorted out, the car is faultless and what a fantastic engine. Why are people not 'going on' about the 165 MJ? All those pro's...



Oh... I forgot, in the GP I had and the GF's Panda - the steering wheel buttons changed between radio pre-sets. The Bravo doesn't, it tunes through the band - who, I mean who, thought that was a good idea?

T14086 said:

selling more bravos than GP's at the moment, never had a customer say to me that they wish they never brought the bravo. Loads hire companies using them now aswell.

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I read in Autocar that last year Fiat sold 4000~ new Bravo's compared with 108,000~ Ford Focus'.

Peerzy said:

I read in Autocar that last year Fiat sold 4000~ new Bravo's compared with 108,000~ Ford Focus'.

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............and

T14086 said:

............and

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They must have to sell a certain number to stop making a loss on the model, even if it it based on the Stilo. If they make a loss on the car it's unlikely the Bravo will have a future beyond the next few years.

Fiat bravo (or any other model) success doesn't rely on the UK market, infact far from it.

Peerzy said:

I read in Autocar that last year Fiat sold 4000~ new Bravo's compared with 108,000~ Ford Focus'.

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I read somewhere that 108000 lemmings jumped over a cliff, and there were only 4000 sensible ones left to continue the species! :devil:

T14086 said:

Fiat bravo (or any other model) success doesn't rely on the UK market, infact far from it.

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Would Fiat not consider leaving the next gen Bravo LHD only if making a RHD model was going to lose them money?

I would rather ask someone in the know than a magazine whose opinions are often biased, a quick look at autocar for example states hyundai have sold most cars under scrappage scheme (Fiat are not even on the list!) yet Fiat have actually sold more.

Big pinch of salt me thinks.

The UK market to Fiat (although significant) is not their 'bread & butter' & even with a big decrease in UK sales last year they recorded their best year ever worldwide.

T14086 said:

I would rather ask someone in the know than a magazine whose opinions are often biased, a quick look at autocar for example states hyundai have sold most cars under scrappage scheme (Fiat are not even on the list!) yet Fiat have actually sold more.

Big pinch of salt me thinks.

The UK market to Fiat (although significant) is not their 'bread & butter' & even with a big decrease in UK sales last year they recorded their best year ever worldwide.

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Fiat may not have released official figures to Autocar. The figures I quoted were taken from their report on running a Bravo for 12 months. They praised it highly but did point out according to Fiat's official figures it's selling worse than the Stilo.

I know the UK is a small part of the Fiat empire, but poor sales over hear could result in the next gen Bravo being European only, or Fiat deciding to only bring one of the new 147 and new Bravo here (considering they will be very much aimed at the same market).

The Bravo is an excellent car. Developments in the engine department will improve it further and it may then begin to get less apologetic coverage.

Fiat will get more positive press here as a result of technical improvements and new models such as the 500c , improved Panda, Topolino, replacement Doblo, improved GP and the Alfa Milano.

Economy will soon be everything to car buyers: Fiat will have shortly have a genuine lead, and this will help greatly.

Also the Chrysler deal has raised the company profile.

I will be very surprised if 2010 isn't a very good year.