Hi i have got a fiat bravo 1.2 16v on a Y plate i got the car 3 months ago with no problems now all off a sudden when i pull off on lock in 1st gear the whole car judders like mad Please help so i can get this sorted

helen1234 said:

Hi i have got a fiat bravo 1.2 16v on a Y plate i got the car 3 months ago with no problems now all off a sudden when i pull off on lock in 1st gear the whole car judders like mad Please help so i can get this sorted

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Hello, I think your car might have the dreaded clutch judder.

How do you mean on lock?

bridges said:

How do you mean on lock?

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wheels turned to full lock i reckon

so you're saying it only does it with the steering on full lock?
does it matter which way the steering is (does it do it for both left and right?)

usually the judder means its nearly time for a new clutch, however in situations where it only occurs at full lock it can also be due to a worn CV joint. this usually happens with the steering at either left or right full lock, but not both.

What's the dreaded clutch judder?
Mine does that when pulling in first... I reckon it's the plate, right?

yep judder is usually caused by an unevenly worn clutch plate. it can also be due to oil contamination.

the first signs are usually a judder only when pulling away in 1st gear and only when cold (first few times you pull away each morning). it gets worse over time.

change the clutch soon, its not an emergency and you can usually drive for thousands of miles with a bit of judder, but its time to save up and get it changed.

jug said:

yep judder is usually caused by an unevenly worn clutch plate. it can also be due to oil contamination.

the first signs are usually a judder only when pulling away in 1st gear and only when cold (first few times you pull away each morning). it gets worse over time.

change the clutch soon, its not an emergency and you can usually drive for thousands of miles with a bit of judder, but its time to save up and get it changed.

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In my case I believe it might be due to oil, cos I have a bit of an oil leak from the bottom... of the gearbox.... I donnow what you call it, (sump?) right under where you refill the gearbox oil... The mechanic said it has to be opend and resealed, he said I have to wash it there first So I'm planning to do it on my vacation in December

yep its usually the sump gasket that leaks oil into the gearbox bell housing. its not a diffcult job to replace the gasket, but it can be a pain if you have to do it with the car jacked up. getting the sump to come off once the bolts are removed can be difficult. it sticks on like its glued in place.

dave said:

wheels turned to full lock i reckon

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Thats what I thought.

was trying to think what could case that Am thinking locking the steering over should not have any bearing on clutch judder.

here are my thoughts anyway,

if the steering is on full lock then it could be a power steering pump problem of some sort. Hold on :bang: wait it is coming, bear with me :idea: when the steering is on full lock more engine power is required to combat the drain caused by the power steering pump. Hence most cars have a valve or electrical signal which is sent. (no idea what system the Fiat uses) what if this was at fault and was causing the engine to blip by intermitantly supplying power.

Also a worn driveshaft but surely it would knock.

If it does it when the wheels are also straight then surely clutch judder.

my brain hurts

Hi and welcome

i cant see it being a clutch issue due to the fact its oly happening when on lock and pulling away, but to iliminate the clutch there are a couple of quick checks you can do. drive along at 20 and put the car into 4th gear, then accelerate as had as possible, if the clutch is an issue the engine speed (rom) will increase quickly without the accelerating. or sit on the drive and with the engine running select 4th and try and pull away in that gear with the handbreak still on... if the engine revs rather than stalls the clutch is the issue.

it could be the differential is on the way out (to the point where it is almost dead) as ive had this a couple of times before with my 1.2, and unfortunately it is a common issue on the early ones.

is it purely on pull away? does it do it more or less when the car is up to full working temperature? does t do it any other gears, be it the same or lesser extenet?

bridges said:

if the steering is on full lock then it could be a power steering pump problem of some sort. Hold on :bang: wait it is coming, bear with me :idea: when the steering is on full lock more engine power is required to combat the drain caused by the power steering pump. Hence most cars have a valve or electrical signal which is sent. (no idea what system the Fiat uses) what if this was at fault and was causing the engine to blip by intermitantly supplying power.

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you're right, at full lock the assistance is cut off by a valve (systems with a pump use a valve, electric systems simply cut power to the motor ) you can usually hear the fluid getting bled through this valve at full lock.
but a fault with that valve could not cause a problem like this as far as i can imagine.

Sorry to dig up an old thread.

Emma’s Brava 1.2 had the dreded clutch judder ever since we got it just under 6 months ago. Its not just when setting off as far as I can remember it’s in every gear depending on clutch control.

We have done about 4K in the car under the impression it’s a common problem and can be suffered or ignored.

However, we have recently noticed a small slick growing under the car. Seems to be coming from where the N/S driveshaft enters the gearbox.

I topped up the gear oil last night and it took about 3/4 Litre . Again this morning there is a fresh slick of bigger proportion .

I discussed the leak at work and it was suggested it could be the dif oil seal or because it’s a rather fast leak an output bearing has dropped.

Has anyone replaced these bearings? Is it an easy job or are they fitted from the inside?

Worse still could it point towards the dif being on its way out?

Its been suggested I could replace the oil seal and see how it goes.

Any ideas gratefully received.

Cheers,
Louie.

output bearing would be noticable by noise, it isnt that, the leak is almost certainly the seal where the driveshaft meets the gearbox (they're blue iirc), its not hard to replace. while the box is off get the clutch replaced, clutch judder is not normal unless your clutch is worn, if you wait until it fails the inconvenience and cost will be greater.

Thanks for the reply Jug !! Sounds like really good news for my bearing.

I appreciate the recommendation to have a new clutch fitted. Is the Oil seal a gearbox out job its self though? Do you know of any tips additional to the Haynes manual's advice for oil seal fitting?

Regards,
Louie.

you dont need to remove the gearbox, just take the driveshaft off, pull the seal out, stick the new one in, refit driveshaft, then laugh at how easy it was

the clutch judder is most likely to be the cause of the oil seal failure. the judder transmits irregular foces through the driveshafts, if it happens regularly it will cause excess wear on the oil seals, cv joints, gearbox bearings, and many other things. the longer you wait before changing the clutch the higher the likelihood that you'll have to replace more parts, costing more money. sometimes its cheaper to act quicky.

Jug.

Thanks so much for the encouragement!

What I have done since my last post here.

1. Cleaned up the big transmission oil patch on my drive.
2. Got a quote for the clutch job (£360+)
3. Priced up tools and parts I need.
4. MOT was due to run out yesterday. So I took car for MOT last week. No point fixing up if needs a stupid amount of work to pass. Brava sailed through ! .
5. Decided to do it my self! I got the parts very cheep through Emma’s clubcento connection!
6. Tools ordered. I now have a massive 3/4" 600mm breaker bar and similar size torque wrench. 32mm impact socket clutch alignment tool and a set of punches. hope it will crack the hub nut :chin:

However, I have decided to do Just the oil seal this weekend. Emma needs her Brava back on the road asap! My Uno’s MOT is also due soon .

This will give me the opportunity to check the oil leak is fixed ahead of doing the clutch. Having the clutch kit and tools around should be an incentive to do it when (Fingers crossed) my Uno has its test.

The parts I have are
2 new hub nuts, set of dif oil seals (these are black) Valio clutch kit (new).

Nothing missing there?

Cheers All,
Louie.

sounds like a good plan, get the seal done first and then deal with the clutch at a more convenient time. sit the front end on axle stands, no point taking silly risks.

No more Oil leak

Only Issue I have is that I need new Nylock nuts for the tie rod to hub carrier and strut to hub carrier. I looked a fair few places but only had the blue type. I need yellow ones, which I believe represent higher tensile option.

I only jacked up one side till It was time to refit the hub to strut. As there is an anti role bar, both sides must be jacked

Uno’s MOT this Thursday, then Clutch Job .

Cheers All,
Louie Bee.

nice one

i wouldnt worry about the lock nuts, they'll be fine if you torque them correctly, there's no real need to replace them.