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Technical Help please!! Injection symbol won't go away

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Technical Help please!! Injection symbol won't go away

A

abadcito

VERY STRESSED BRAVA OWNER
Joined
Nov 2, 2009
Messages
31
Points
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Location
GLASGOW
Hi guys, i'm desperately needing some help a few weeks back I started getting the injection symbol showing on the panel of my FIAT BRAVA 1.4 12V, after i would be driving for a while, then i'd noticed if I stopped the car and switch the engine off, and try to star it again it wouldn't, i will have to put my foot all the way down the gas pedal to star it again, so I decided to take it to a garage, I was told they had changed the spark plugs which they did, but the ignition coil needed changed, so they quoted me £190, which I cant afford really, considering I bought the car for £475, so I went to the scraps the other day and bought a coil pack, cameback home and changed the coil pack and the leads, but i still keep getting the symbol,:bang: can anyone help me please, is there anything else I can do?, THIS IS THE SYMBOL BY THE WAY!.
ignition.jpg
 
Symbols shows that smoething's wrong with injectors, coil or even ECU cannot determine proper ignition timing from Knock/MAF and/or crank-shaft position sensor.

You must not start your car with fully or slightly pressed gas pedal!!

Normally simbol must dissapear within 6 seconds.

Keep your old coil for the time being as first you have to check if your injectors are clogged or only partially clogged (where I recommend using double dose of STP injector cleaner- white bottle and minimum amount of gasoline in your tank), if this doesn't help, then you have to take your car to diagnostics first (about 15 euros, not more!!!) and if you need to clean the injectors, use ULTRASONIC system and nothing else.

BTW new coil doesn't cost more than 60 euros!

Cheers(y)
 
Any decent car electrician with the 3 pin diagnostic socket can read the error code and reset the error for ya for around £20 and atleast you'll know whats causing the problem. Fiat will charge £45 - £90 for a diagnostic.

You may have purchased a duff coil pack. I would of bought a new one as they are cheap enough and easy to fit. But a diagnostic would be money well spent.

Note: Some errors need to be reset for the light to go out.
 
JoskeJTD said:
Any decent car electrician with the 3 pin diagnostic socket can read the error code and reset the error for ya for around £20 and atleast you'll know whats causing the problem. Fiat will charge £45 - £90 for a diagnostic.

You may have purchased a duff coil pack. I would of bought a new one as they are cheap enough and easy to fit. But a diagnostic would be money well spent.

Note: Some errors need to be reset for the light to go out.
Click to expand...
I have read this info in the forum, that if i disconnect the battery it will do a master reset, do you think i should do it and see what happens, here it is the info:
Resetting The ECU
THIS WILL NOT RESET THE AIR BAG WARNING LIGHT
This is the basic reset which will restore the various positions back to factory setting.
Disconnect the battery for a minimum of 45 minutes. Simply remove the earth side (-) and pull to one side.
When you reconnect the battery and start the car for the first time do NOT rev then engine for 5 minutes. This allows all the postioning motors to go back to default. Once the 5 minutes is up you may stop and restart the car then drive normally.
All the "reset" does is put the positioners such as the IACV back to factory setting. The car will then relearn the positions required for the conditions you put your car under. However if you drive your car hard from the off after doing this, it will expect to be driven like that al the time and therefore may feel a little sluggish unless really pushed. Also, whilst this relearning is taking place you may experience higher running costs.
You will not have to reprogramme any keys afterwards and your radio should not loose its code either. You will have to alter the time unless its a H2 where if you put it to an FM station it will pick up the time automarically.​

cheers!!.
 
Resetting errors and ECU itself can be done by taking off positive and negative terminals from car's battery, and then join those cables (not battery) together for a moment, to enable electronics' capacitors to discharge themselves. Leave your car in that condition (with cables off the battery) overnight. In the morning, start the car WITHOUT touching gas pedal and leave it idling for a 30 minutes.

This way is done Fiat Bravo/Brava/Marea resetting. (y)

I have done it several times and have read it in Marea manual.
Also it is available in Marea/Bravo/Brava workshop manuals.
 
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exhaust said:
Resetting errors and ECU itself can be done by taking off positive and negative terminals from car's battery, and then join those cables (not battery) together for a moment, to enable electronics' capacitors to discharge themselves. Leave your car in that condition (with cables off the battery) overnight. In the morning, start the car WITHOUT touching gas pedal and leave it idling for a 30 minutes.

This way is done Fiat Bravo/Brava/Marea resetting. (y)

I have done it several times and have read it in Marea manual.
Also it is available in Marea/Bravo/Brava workshop manuals.
Click to expand...
Do I leave it disconnected overnight or 45 minutes as the guide says??, cheers:slayer:
 
I always did it overnight and left it like that. Depends which year is your car and in what state, stated 45 minutes could be shorter or longer, so if you do it NOW, first thing in the morning you can see if it worked, before you proceed with other "expenses".
This is just recommendation, assuming that you are preparing to go to sleep shortly.... Nothing costs you to try.
 
exhaust said:
I always did it overnight and left it like that. Depends which year is your car and in what state, stated 45 minutes could be shorter or longer, so if you do it NOW, first thing in the morning you can see if it worked, before you proceed with other "expenses".
This is just recommendation, assuming that you are preparing to go to sleep shortly.... Nothing costs you to try.
Click to expand...
I will do it right now then, and see if there's any change in the morning, if the problem persists i guess i just need to buy a new coil pack i've seen one on ebay this is the link http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260435574887 i checked the number with the one i had removed and it matches, so i'll just wait till the morning and whatever happens i'll keep you posted, cheers :slayer:
 
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Yep, that's the one - double coil pack for waste spark principle fiat engines.

BUT - if the symbol doesn't go away, it is not the coil you have to check first, INJECTORS have to be checked before.

For testing the coil with OHM meter, i will give you figures in the morning, I have to check in my book first for your car.

Cheers...
 
exhaust said:
Yep, that's the one - double coil pack for waste spark principle fiat engines.

BUT - if the symbol doesn't go away, it is not the coil you have to check first, INJECTORS have to be checked before.

For testing the coil with OHM meter, i will give you figures in the morning, I have to check in my book first for your car.

Cheers...
Click to expand...
I have disconnected both ends of the battery, thanks for all your help i will keep you posted
 
Right I have left the battery disconnected overnight, this morning I connected the battery back, switched the engine on, without any gas, left it on for about 30 min, then i went to test drive it, for about 10 min, and no symbol, i thought this is it, and I got very excited, but then as I was turning into my street I went into first gear, and guess what the bloody light came on again:bang:, there's something else I forgot to mention though, when I changed the leads for the coil pack, the longest one lead #1 in coil pack, was dry at the end that goes into the engine while all the other had oil in and around them, is that right??, please help!!!.:(
 
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All spark plug leads MUST be dry! Try retightening of spark plugs, as they might leak, or you have more serious problem - crack on cylinder head.

Nevertheless - to test ignition coil do as follows:

1. Have your OHM meter ready and set to MEGAOHM reading
2. Disconnect spark plug leads from the coil.
3. Disconnect a 3-pin jack connected to coil (comming from ECU)

On disconnected jack on the coil you will see 3 pins of which a middle one is POSITIVE and other two are NEGATIVE poles of two PRIMARY coils.
Place your tester with RED lead to coils positive (middle) pin and tester's black lead to, lets say left one pin and take reading!
Now, keeping your tester's Positive position, check with negative lead other pin and take reading.

That is testing of primary coils!

Testing of secondary coils is done as follows:
1. Take OHM readings on plugs for cylinders 4 & 1
2 Take OHM readings on plugs for cylinders 3 & 2.
Compare secondary readings.

These testings are valid only for 1.4 12v and 1.6 16v models, as 1.8 and 2.0 models have independent coils for each cylinder

Everything is OK with your coil if primary coils are close to each other with readings, also secondary readings must be close.

If in any case you get ZERO or infinite reading, the coils is to be replaced.

Now, regarding your last comment and update, you really might have a problem with either cylinder head or at least injectors which NOW i recommend to have tested.
As someone already said, you should attend FIAT's diagnostics to check other things (sensors and status of the engine).

One question: when you put your key in the ignition and turn it into SECOND position, just before starting; do you hear a constant "BEEEEEEEEEE" coming from you rear?
 
One question: when you put your key in the ignition and turn it into SECOND position, just before starting; do you hear a constant "BEEEEEEEEEE" coming from you rear?[/QUOTE]

I don't hear any noise, but i'd read earlier that to test the leads I should switch the engine on, then unplugg the leads from the coil pack one by one, and see if any of them make any difference to the performance, so I did and found out that by pulling lead #2 and lead #3 the performance changed so I replaced the leads, and it sounded more at ease, I took it out for a drive, and I drove for about 15 min, but eventually sign returned, and as before once I stopped the car struggle to start the engine, but this time i did'nt rev any gas at all, and started again eventually, it has to be the coil pack and not something else right?, as the garage told me their diagnose said the coil pack needed replace, and after they checked it there was a couple of red paint marks on the old coil pack, regards..
 
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When you take out spark plug leads, performance will change, ofcourse.

Cylinders 1&4 will get the spark at the same time eventhough only one of them is at the end of SECOND STROKE, same is for 2&3 cylinders; that is waste spark principle.

What i mentioned before, you must test the coil, not the leads.

Mostly, when a coil pack is faulty, engine will loose 2 cylinders and you will feel it in every day's driving, sudden cut of in power and after a while power could be restored by temperature of the coil itself to start working again.

So, I'm thinking that injectors could be the problem after all, BUT why you have wet leads, i don't reou really know, but that your spark plugs are loose.

As you say that you don't hear any sound from the rear (i was refering to fuel pump), what I would do is start changing spark plugs (originals should be NGK, replaceable every 40000 km).
After that it must be something with clogged injectors. Cleaning of injectors per peace, in my fiat's garage, is about 40 euro, new ones - don't even ask, close to 500 euro!

I have found correct figures for you coil pack:

Primary resistance - 0,45 to 0,55 OHMS
Secondary resistance - 12000 to 14600 OHMS.

If you can, check also a Crankshaft TDC sensor, it should be 774 to 946 OHMS.

Anyway, I'll put my money on injectors.

Do you know STP fuel injector cleaner? If you do, buy 2 bottles at least and have just a quarter of tank max filled with fuel and fill those bottles in, before refueling to one quarter.

Why one quarter, to increase cleaning solution strength by 8 times. and then go for a drive and drive it like WRC driver, go to high rpms to clean those ...... you know what.
 
exhaust said:
When you take out spark plug leads, performance will change, ofcourse.

Cylinders 1&4 will get the spark at the same time eventhough only one of them is at the end of SECOND STROKE, same is for 2&3 cylinders; that is waste spark principle.

What i mentioned before, you must test the coil, not the leads.

Mostly, when a coil pack is faulty, engine will loose 2 cylinders and you will feel it in every day's driving, sudden cut of in power and after a while power could be restored by temperature of the coil itself to start working again.

So, I'm thinking that injectors could be the problem after all, BUT why you have wet leads, i don't reou really know, but that your spark plugs are loose.

As you say that you don't hear any sound from the rear (i was refering to fuel pump), what I would do is start changing spark plugs (originals should be NGK, replaceable every 40000 km).
After that it must be something with clogged injectors. Cleaning of injectors per peace, in my fiat's garage, is about 40 euro, new ones - don't even ask, close to 500 euro!

I have found correct figures for you coil pack:

Primary resistance - 0,45 to 0,55 OHMS
Secondary resistance - 12000 to 14600 OHMS.

If you can, check also a Crankshaft TDC sensor, it should be 774 to 946 OHMS.

Anyway, I'll put my money on injectors.

Do you know STP fuel injector cleaner? If you do, buy 2 bottles at least and have just a quarter of tank max filled with fuel and fill those bottles in, before refueling to one quarter.

Why one quarter, to increase cleaning solution strength by 8 times. and then go for a drive and drive it like WRC driver, go to high rpms to clean those ...... you know what.
Click to expand...
Is it this one i need to buy? http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/..._productId_205461_langId_-1_categoryId_165750
I have half a tank just now do i wait until it goes down to a quarter?, regards.
 
Yes, that's the one. Normally it takes 1 bottle per 1 full tank of fuel, but just to increase mixture, to make it over rich - better cleaning, take 2 bottles and half or quarter of tank.

You can add it now, but you will need to add some gasoline in, to MIX everything, because you cannot "shake" your car enough to mix everything.

A was using this product, and as well as STP power booster, orange bottle..
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/...earch&storeId=10001&catalogId=10151&langId=-1

just to add some power and response to the throttle.
 
Yes, that's the one!

You can add it to your tank now, but you will need to add some fuel as you cannot shake your car to mix it with fuel.
Why am I saying quarter of fuel with 2 bottels - just to make cleaning better and stronger, as one bottle is made to mix with only one full tank of fuel which is added BEFORE refueling.
I was using that product on regular basis, and sometimes I was adding STP power boost, orange bottle...
 
It is all the same! Black or white bottle. Combination with power booster (orange bottle) will give you better throttle response.

If you can buy that twin pack, buy it. add it immediately and add FEW litres of fuel to mix everything.

Maybe you will hear after few minutes of driving some WRC SOUND from your exhaust, but don't worry, that means its WORKING!
 
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