I was thinking about putting this in the 500X section, unfortunately, there isn't one yet, so I'll stick it here instead.

We had to go oop north for a funeral last week and realising that we might have to tote some elderly relatives around decided that the Panda might be too small and the 156 too low for them to get out of with any sense of decorum. So I nipped up to my local Avis and decided to rent something from the Focus/Golf group. Sadly, although they gave me a very good deal, they couldn't give me a Focus or Golf. However, they did have a Peugeot 2008, Vauxhall Mokka and FIAT 500L.

No-brainer then, as a member on here, the 500L it would be. Er, no. It wasn't ready so I ended up with the Mokka as the lesser of two evils. The reason I went for this was that this is the kind of thing the 500X will be up against when it arrives and as the closest thing to that I've driven has been a Freelander.

At first I thought it was quite Audi like inside with some nice materials although some were less so. It was well equipped having front and rear sensors, climate control, cruise control, fairly big alloys, four electric windows and a six speed 'box and a reasonable (for a standard fit) stereo, as well as four wheel drive.

Overall though I quite liked it, despite it feeling about as big as a Freelander when it plainly isn't. I mainly drove it on Motorways and National Speed Limit dual carriageways where it was comfortable, quiet and stable, and even on the one or two bends where I could get some speed up, namely the M62 eastbound/M1 northbound (and its reverse) and the A1/A168 it was accurate and predictable. But I did feel that at those speeds it was coming to the limits of its roadholding and although it felt quite substantial and meaty through the steering it didn't exactly change direction like a Focus.

It was fairly roomy with a reasonable sized boot, as long as you didn't want to go on holiday with your dog and three kids although the back seat did slide backwards and forwards.

However, despite being quite impressed by its trip computer readout of a fairly consistent 53-ish mpg but when I actually sat down afterwards and, after filling up with diesel, came up with not the 52.9 mpg on the little screen but 40.6.

I must admit that, fuel consumption apart, I could live with a Mokka quite happily and if I was buying a car of this type I would have four wheel drive like this one so I'll be interested in seeing how the 500X stands up to the Vauxhall.

What did annoy me is the fact that not content with companies lying about fuel consumption in their brochures even their trip computers lie as well.

A good friend of mine has a top end mokka with reversing camera sat nav etc all built into the dash.

Years ago a car was sold on electric windows and power steering, but now it's about blue tooth colour LCD screens and other fancy technological gadgets as an example our mini has a g-meter and the ability to tweet and access facebook via the dash.

From what I understand looking at the spec sheets the 500x won't be quite as well equipped as the Vauxhall but that's really all down to the boxes you tick when you order one.

The 500x is a nice looking car and in my view the car fiat should have released instead of the 500L.

Sadly the 500x is going to be a very expensive car which would put me off when I could buy something German for the same money

It looks as if the base Pop will be reasonably well equipped and although lacking alloys will have A/C and rear parking sensors.

One of the problems is perspective. For instance, many of those on here will allow themselves a chuckle if I say that the first car I drove had a one speed heater fan, one speed wipers, a screenwasher that was operated by repeatedly pressing a button and a dim/dip switch that was just a big button on the floor. It had vinyl seats, a wing mirror on the driver's side and er, well, er that's about it. Oh it had chrome hub caps as well.

Of course my Dad thought that was all a bit soft as his first car didn't have a heater at all and the wipers didn't even self park. It also only had synchromesh on the top three gears. The front windows went up and down only if you took hold of the small glass tabs glued to them and pulled.....or pushed.

My Panda has a CD radio, alloys, metallic paint, power steering remote central locking and a 5 speed box. Which in fairness is enough for me, although A/C would have been nice at certain times, which leads me to ask the question: How much is too much? Is there actually any such thing as too much equipment on a car? I think there's such a thing as having too much to do while driving. The Panda's dash is pretty uncluttered and as such it's quite easy to devote as much of your attention to actually making the thing move without hitting anything, or any body. The Mokka had way too many buttons. Whoever planned the heater controls must have gone to the Hyundai school of dashboard design because I really can't work out why you need one button to put air on the screen; another for air to the floor; a third for cabin air vents and an up-down rocker switch for the fan. Put alongside those more buttons for through flow ventilation and heated rear window and there's just too much time with your eyes off the road.

I suppose what I'm really bemoaning here is the change in emphasis in how cars are sold and marketed. It used to be about what you could do with the car. Now it seems to be more about what you can do in the car.

I might be hurtling through old git-dom, but I can't help thinking that we'll be worse off when our cars become mobile internet cafes rather than pieces of machinery that respond to being operated competently, that display design and engineering integrity and make us feel good because of the journey, whatever the journey.

I was told by a sales rep that the 4x4 version will be a 2.0l auto

Mr Beard, this is what happens when you spend too long staring at a vauxhall dashboard you yearn for a better simpler way...

New Vauxhall dash design is crap...it's been designed to look good in the brochure rather than for use, a friend of mine has a base new astra and even without climate pack the heating and stereo controls are needlessly complex. Despite having far fewer actual functions than my car it has far more buttons, like every button must only do one thing and one alone, and some of them seem to do the same thing....

Climate control done properly only really has 3 controls you use. Demist (toggle off/on activates ac, turns fan on high speed, aims air at windows deactivates recirc if it is activated) A temperature control and a button to engage auto which you normally press once you've set you preferred temp. All other controls are there only to keep people who buy a car with climate then use it like it hasn't got climate control happy.

Buy the right car it will still have engineering integrity (you may wish to avoid anything with a griffin in the nose for this) but you'll also be able to drive it for several hours and be less stressed than if you had to sort everything out for yourself (cruise control...made for average speed zones..) and be in a better mood when you reach your destination. Buy the wrong car...it doesn't matter how many buttons it's got, you can't polish a turd, electric windows and AC will only distract for so long.

The Beard said:

It looks as if the base Pop will be reasonably well equipped and although lacking alloys will have A/C and rear parking sensors.

One of the problems is perspective. For instance, many of those on here will allow themselves a chuckle if I say that the first car I drove had a one speed heater fan, one speed wipers, a screenwasher that was operated by repeatedly pressing a button and a dim/dip switch that was just a big button on the floor. It had vinyl seats, a wing mirror on the driver's side and er, well, er that's about it. Oh it had chrome hub caps as well.

Of course my Dad thought that was all a bit soft as his first car didn't have a heater at all and the wipers didn't even self park. It also only had synchromesh on the top three gears. The front windows went up and down only if you took hold of the small glass tabs glued to them and pulled.....or pushed.

My Panda has a CD radio, alloys, metallic paint, power steering remote central locking and a 5 speed box. Which in fairness is enough for me, although A/C would have been nice at certain times, which leads me to ask the question: How much is too much? Is there actually any such thing as too much equipment on a car? I think there's such a thing as having too much to do while driving. The Panda's dash is pretty uncluttered and as such it's quite easy to devote as much of your attention to actually making the thing move without hitting anything, or any body. The Mokka had way too many buttons. Whoever planned the heater controls must have gone to the Hyundai school of dashboard design because I really can't work out why you need one button to put air on the screen; another for air to the floor; a third for cabin air vents and an up-down rocker switch for the fan. Put alongside those more buttons for through flow ventilation and heated rear window and there's just too much time with your eyes off the road.

I suppose what I'm really bemoaning here is the change in emphasis in how cars are sold and marketed. It used to be about what you could do with the car. Now it seems to be more about what you can do in the car.

I might be hurtling through old git-dom, but I can't help thinking that we'll be worse off when our cars become mobile internet cafes rather than pieces of machinery that respond to being operated competently, that display design and engineering integrity and make us feel good because of the journey, whatever the journey.

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Out of interest, what was your 1st car?

With regards to the last paragraph, I completely agree with you. I'm a Top Gear magazine subscriber, and when I see the latest cars, I can't help but think things are going too far. Power outputs are getting ridiculous, ditto equipment levels. I like to have a reasonable amount of kit in a car, but the things manufacturers are coming up with are pointless. Playing synthesised engine noise through the speakers?! Wtf?! I'm 24, and I'm lucky enough to own a 2008 Grande Punto Eleganza 8v. Personally, I think this is the epitome of cardom: well equipped; but without resorting to pointless gadgets, safe; but without relying too heavily on electronics to make it so, spacious inside; but still fairly compact, nippy enough to be a fun way of getting around;but not needlessly powerful, etc.

I think there is a deep rooted psychological need for vauxhall owners to have lots of buttons the more buttons you had the more things you had so if you see a vauxhall dash covered in buttons you've really made it in life as you neighbour has 6 less buttons than your car you are clearly superior.

Things have moved on and as apple proved with the original iPhone it's not about having lots it's doing lots in a more simple and clever way, it's the phone that changed the industry and apple now finds its self falling behind.

In car terms vauxhall is still Nokia in about 2005 bolting on more and more gadgets without thinking about how to use them.

Fiat however are by no means a leader in such things, the reason a fiat dash remains fairly basic and uncluttered isn't because they are super clever with their designs it's more simple than that, they don't have much in the way of gadgets.
They tried a few years back with blue&me but it really wasn't very good and it's more or less redundant now while fiat try new things as they did with the 500L.

the 500 still uses a fairly conventional radio, climate control is basic no options for heated seats, sat nav (that isn't a plugged in tomtom) I think they still don't offer cruise control on the 500, while other manufacturers will offer everything for a price, fiat still like to dictate what you can have.

I think the 500x looks nice but too much like the market leading Nissan cashcow if you want anything different to the norm that really leaves the countryman and while fiat keep trying to go head to head with mini they forget time and time again mini buyers want more luxury and get their tech from BMW which fiat will always struggle to compete.

What I believe fiat really need to do is look at not what people are currently buying and try to copy it, but look at what people want in the future and try and build the best car they can to meet it.

A 500x with the technology that the Likes of bmw,merc, Volvo, or vag are currently producing would be a really nice car to own and worthy of the £20k+ price tag that they plan to charge.

If the 500L is anything to go by I would expect the 500x to be worth £8k-10k less after a year

AndyRKett said:

I think there is a deep rooted psychological need for vauxhall owners to have lots of buttons the more buttons you had the more things you had so if you see a vauxhall dash covered in buttons you've really made it in life as you neighbour has 6 less buttons than your car you are clearly superior.

Things have moved on and as apple proved with the original iPhone it's not about having lots it's doing lots in a more simple and clever way, it's the phone that changed the industry and apple now finds its self falling behind.

In car terms vauxhall is still Nokia in about 2005 bolting on more and more gadgets without thinking about how to use them.

Fiat however are by no means a leader in such things, the reason a fiat dash remains fairly basic and uncluttered isn't because they are super clever with their designs it's more simple than that, they don't have much in the way of gadgets.
They tried a few years back with blue&me but it really wasn't very good and it's more or less redundant now while fiat try new things as they did with the 500L.

the 500 still uses a fairly conventional radio, climate control is basic no options for heated seats, sat nav (that isn't a plugged in tomtom) I think they still don't offer cruise control on the 500, while other manufacturers will offer everything for a price, fiat still like to dictate what you can have.

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You say that, but my Grande Punto has a better dual zone climate control system than my grandads 2011 5-series!

puntofan01 said:

You say that, but my Grande Punto has a better dual zone climate control system than my grandads 2011 5-series!

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BMW



Grande punto



The pictures speak for them self

AndyRKett said:

BMW

Grande punto

The pictures speak for them self

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I'm sure his is different to that 1.

That was the Mokka I had on holiday and the kind of land it was used across. It was a 1.4 140 turbo 2WD, more than capable across the rough stuff with hill descent.

I surprisingly actually grew to like the car, I wasn't expecting much due to negative reviews, and having to drive Corsa's all the time knowing how horrible they are.

I think the 500X and Renegade are both really nice looking cars and the only ones that could possibly tempt me back to Fiat.

The first car I drove was my Mum's Viva HB and the first car I drove on a regular basis was the Viva HC that replaced it. I also drove my Dad's cars such as the Ventora FD, Austin 1800, Renault 18 and VW Jetta at various times. Then there were my own cars: Chevette 1.3, Chevette 2300HS, Consul 2000, Consul 2500, Kadett 1.3S, Mk. 1 Cavalier, various Festas, d Escorts and Sierras, Lancia Y10 Turbo, Delta HF 1.6 and shed loads of Corsas, Fiestas, Focus, 128, Uno, 156 and Panda.

And probably loads that I can't remember.

JimbbobW1977 said:

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View attachment 150387

That was the Mokka I had on holiday and the kind of land it was used across. It was a 1.4 140 turbo 2WD, more than capable across the rough stuff with hill descent.

I surprisingly actually grew to like the car, I wasn't expecting much due to negative reviews, and having to drive Corsa's all the time knowing how horrible they are.

I think the 500X and Renegade are both really nice looking cars and the only ones that could possibly tempt me back to Fiat.

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I quite liked the Mokka as well, but objectively it wasn't a particularly good car. As for cluttered dashboards, the latest Focus is one that has had a good clean up of the facias. Peugeot are making a selling point of it but, maybe because I'm getting older and more cranky, I can't help thinking that the old maxim of KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) could be applied in these cases.

Sometimes familiarity helps. I can remember the Mk1. Uno being criticised in the motoring press for having confusing minor controls, but I never had any problems. It was quite simple really, lights on the left; windows on the wight. If you see what I mean.

Touch screens, can't say I'm a huge fan of having all the controls on a touch screen. I don't really want to go through endless menus to adjust simple things like heating etc, a route the new 308 has gone down.

My old GP was simple in that respect and I liked that.

The Beard said:

The first car I drove was my Mum's Viva HB and the first car I drove on a regular basis was the Viva HC that replaced it. I also drove my Dad's cars such as the Ventora FD, Austin 1800, Renault 18 and VW Jetta at various times. Then there were my own cars: Chevette 1.3, Chevette 2300HS, Consul 2000, Consul 2500, Kadett 1.3S, Mk. 1 Cavalier, various Festas, d Escorts and Sierras, Lancia Y10 Turbo, Delta HF 1.6 and shed loads of Corsas, Fiestas, Focus, 128, Uno, 156 and Panda.

And probably loads that I can't remember.

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Blimey! That's quite a selection, lol!

JimbbobW1977 said:

Touch screens, can't say I'm a huge fan of having all the controls on a touch screen. I don't really want to go through endless menus to adjust simple things like heating etc, a route the new 308 has gone down.

My old GP was simple in that respect and I liked that.

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Not meaning to sound like an old fart, but whilst I like to have a reasonable amount of kit in a car, I do think the very latest cars have far too much technology in them, as you say, with touchscreens becoming increasingly popular.

One of the things my old GP and my current Focus I like is I press a button to do what I need, rather than going through different menus to get to the screen I need.

Trying to use touch screen or something like Audis MMI system is not easy on the move.

JimbbobW1977 said:

One of the things my old GP and my current Focus I like is I press a button to do what I need, rather than going through different menus to get to the screen I need.

Trying to use touch screen or something like Audis MMI system is not easy on the move.

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I find that the Grande Punto is a very driver friendly car.

A couple of weeks back mini lent us a new cooper with the updated Idrive System from BMWs installed.

The screen is not a touch screen and as you can see all the heating controls use conventional buttons, but the computer is controlled by the buttons on the centre console, the best bit is that to input text or anything you simply draw on the top of the control dial with your finger to type letters and text, extremely well designed and easy to use with absolute minimal time with eyes off the road.

This system has one awards

My Dad's Ventora gave me my first rather frightening experience of cadence braking. I borrowed it one fine icy day and about half a mile from home tried to slow down for a corner when the combintion of an automatic gearbox, a patch of ice and a pretty fierce automatic choke combined to drive me straight on into some woman's herbaceous border.

For some reason I let off the brakes and, surprise surprise, the thing turned the corner.

Mind you, given enough years almost anyone can drive a lot of cars.