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Technical Warning for Marelli Twinair tuning box users.

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Technical Warning for Marelli Twinair tuning box users.

The Twins said:
It's not there 100% of the time. But when it's there it's quite noticeable. Don't really get to Newbury much. I'll let you know if I'm down that way tho.
Click to expand...

My car seems to have this issue stock :eek:
 
UFI, I wouldn't be surprised if the MM tuning module would "amplify" this behaviour of your car.
 
Hi all,

Been away for a while. See a lot has happened.

My account got locked after a few days too but I got it reopened after mailing MM (one of the few times they've actually responded to my emails). I must say I'm pretty disappointed by their customer service. Sounds like they are either hiding something or the people answering emails don't have a clue what's going on.

If this "sobbing" issue refers to what I would call "hesitation", then I've experienced that to. It happens when accelerating hard. At first I attributed to a failing ignition coil I had replaced in the fall, but later found out it is actually (in my case at least) the fuel. I've been alternating between FuelSave 95 and V-Power 99 to test it out, and the problem is not there with V-Power. I'm gonna try some other brands of fuel to see if they are different but I'm guessing it is the octane rating that makes the difference.

I have a 2011 TA 85. I have less restrictive air filter and an aftermarket exhaust installed. Dunno if it makes a difference in my case. Probably not since everything points to the fuel.
 
I defiantly don't have any issue that is obvious. And I'm a mechanic by trade so know what your all talking about.
Mine is on regular unleaded from Tesco or sainsburys.
But thinking it maybe because mine is newer and dualogic. And is a sport so has a more aggressive map standard.
 
DaMoeKri said:
Hi all,

Been away for a while. See a lot has happened.

My account got locked after a few days too but I got it reopened after mailing MM (one of the few times they've actually responded to my emails). I must say I'm pretty disappointed by their customer service. Sounds like they are either hiding something or the people answering emails don't have a clue what's going on.

If this "sobbing" issue refers to what I would call "hesitation", then I've experienced that to. It happens when accelerating hard. At first I attributed to a failing ignition coil I had replaced in the fall, but later found out it is actually (in my case at least) the fuel. I've been alternating between FuelSave 95 and V-Power 99 to test it out, and the problem is not there with V-Power. I'm gonna try some other brands of fuel to see if they are different but I'm guessing it is the octane rating that makes the difference.

I have a 2011 TA 85. I have less restrictive air filter and an aftermarket exhaust installed. Dunno if it makes a difference in my case. Probably not since everything points to the fuel.
Click to expand...

Mine is a 2011 too. I have sobbing even using V Power. Funny thing is it's not there all the time. It's particularly noticeable if I've been ticking over for a long time or in heavy traffic. After these situations I get 'sobbing'.
 
The Twins said:
Mine is a 2011 too. I have sobbing even using V Power. Funny thing is it's not there all the time. It's particularly noticeable if I've been ticking over for a long time or in heavy traffic. After these situations I get 'sobbing'.
Click to expand...

Interesting. Is it less pronounched when using V-Power compared to regular or the same?
 
I have now experienced the sobbing. But not in my fiat 500. I fitted the module to my girlfriends colour therapy and noticed the problem. Her car is also the dualogic version and same age as mine. So as i thought before the problem looks like its the stock map installed to the cars from factory.
 
Some of you have the remote control, but I don't remember who does. Does the sobbing perhaps occur in the first kilometers/miles after you switched modes with the remote control? Modern ECUs use all kinds of adaptive strategies. Therefore it might take some time/distance for the ECU to adapt itself to the changed mode. During this adaptation time some hesitations could occur. Such a phenomenon could also be an explanation for the fact that Corsasri noticed the sobbing right after fitting the module to another 500. It could even be an explanation for the fact that sobbing occurs after switching to a lower quality fuel.

This is just a wild guess from my side, but maybe it helps us further in understanding the issue.
 
Last edited:
corsasri said:
I have the remote but don't use it.
Click to expand...
OK, my "theory" could still be valid then. You don't switch modes and you don't notice sobbing. However, you noticed it on the other car, but that was right after fitting the module. When the sobbing occured, the ECU might still have been busy adapting itself to the "sudden" presence of the module.
 
Sorry, I misunderstood, Corsasri. I thought you only tried it briefly on the other car.
 
DaMoeKri said:
I have a 2011 TA 85.
Click to expand...
The Twins said:
Mine is a 2011 too.
Click to expand...
As I wrote earlier, FIAT changed the control strategies used by the TA in 2011. So, although both cars were built in 2011, they could still use different control strategies!

When a member of the Dutch 500 forum asked the Dutch chiptuner Squadra Tuning about this "control strategies" thing, Squadra Tuning replied that it had something to do with the balance between ignition timing and boost pressure. Apparently the more recent TA engines aggressively reduce boost pressure if knock is detected, whereas the earlier TA engines retarded the ignition timing. An aggressive boost pressure reduction might be felt as an hesitation. Is this perhaps the sobbing phenomenon?
 
AGH1965 said:
As I wrote earlier, FIAT changed the control strategies used by the TA in 2011. So, although both cars were built in 2011, they could still use different control strategies!

When a member of the Dutch 500 forum asked the Dutch chiptuner Squadra Tuning about this "control strategies" thing, Squadra Tuning replied that it had something to do with the balance between ignition timing and boost pressure. Apparently the more recent TA engines aggressively reduce boost pressure if knock is detected, whereas the earlier TA engines retarded the ignition timing. An aggressive boost pressure reduction might be felt as an hesitation. Is this perhaps the sobbing phenomenon?
Click to expand...

Sounds like you might be on to something there.
I've noticed 'sobbing' doesnt happen if the car is only just at 100% at full temp and when the car is really hot due to hard driving and then being stopped in traffic it's there quite bad. Seems heat has something to do with the issue too maybe?
 
The Twins said:
I've noticed 'sobbing' doesnt happen if the car is only just at 100% at full temp and when the car is really hot due to hard driving and then being stopped in traffic it's there quite bad. Seems heat has something to do with the issue too maybe?
Click to expand...
DaMoeKri said:
If this "sobbing" issue refers to what I would call "hesitation", then I've experienced that to. It happens when accelerating hard. At first I attributed to a failing ignition coil I had replaced in the fall, but later found out it is actually (in my case at least) the fuel. I've been alternating between FuelSave 95 and V-Power 99 to test it out, and the problem is not there with V-Power.
Click to expand...
Both heat and the fuel's octane number influence knock. I'm quite convinced now that the 'sobbing' phenomenon is knock related.

The Twins, you wrote earlier that you use V-Power Nitro+. Since we don't have that fuel in my country, I looked at Shell's UK website to find specifications. Then I noticed Shell doesn't mention the octane number at all. Instead Shell emphasises the following:
  • Shell V-Power Nitro+ Unleaded is formulated with powerful cleaning agents designed to protect key fuel system components from gunk and to help remove some existing gunk as you drive.
  • Shell V-Power Nitro+ Unleaded is also designed to form a protective film on metal surfaces helping prevent corrosion of critical fuel system components.
  • Shell V-Power Nitro+ Unleaded with Friction Modification Technology (FMT) is designed to help reduce friction in critical areas of your engine, helping them turn more freely.
Therefore I think Shell V-Power Nitro+ has the same octane number as regular Euro 95 fuel.
 
Apparently, V-Power Nitro + is rated at 99RON in the UK but may be a different formulation in other countries.
 
Paul A H said:
Apparently, V-Power Nitro + is rated at 99RON in the UK
Click to expand...
Of course I like to believe that, but unfortunately Shell doesn't mention the octane number on their UK website. However, they give this reason for any potential benefit of Shell V-Power Nitro+:
  • Actual potential benefits relate to a detergency element which is designed to help clean-up existing deposits in your engine.
If benefits would be octane number related, then they would surely mention that!

More info: http://www.shell.co.uk/motorist/she...o-plus/shell-v-power-nitro-plus-unleaded.html
 
AGH1965 said:
Both heat and the fuel's octane number influence knock. I'm quite convinced now that the 'sobbing' phenomenon is knock related.

The Twins, you wrote earlier that you use V-Power Nitro+. Since we don't have that fuel in my country, I looked at Shell's UK website to find specifications. Then I noticed Shell doesn't mention the octane number at all. Instead Shell emphasises the following:
  • Shell V-Power Nitro+ Unleaded is formulated with powerful cleaning agents designed to protect key fuel system components from gunk and to help remove some existing gunk as you drive.
  • Shell V-Power Nitro+ Unleaded is also designed to form a protective film on metal surfaces helping prevent corrosion of critical fuel system components.
  • Shell V-Power Nitro+ Unleaded with Friction Modification Technology (FMT) is designed to help reduce friction in critical areas of your engine, helping them turn more freely.
Therefore I think Shell V-Power Nitro+ has the same octane number as regular Euro 95 fuel.
Click to expand...
I thought v power was 99 Ron.
 
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