I know but it was a tenuous opportunity to link to an article on Ford's response to ecoboost engine failures.
Technical Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report
- Thread starter auditt
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Technical Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report
Fair point 
Hi Steve
Thanks for keeping us informed on this - we're all rooting for you here
.Good luck & hope all goes smoothly.
John.
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Apologies folks - I should have quoted the original. Yes it was in response to the post mentioned above.
I have sympathy with those cursed with 'The Problem' for sure, and while I'll admit to the ecoboost having the wow factor, it's not comparable with the FIRE 1.2 and shouldn't be used as the yardstick by which to measure performance.
By all means use another normally aspirated 1.2 engine in a car with similar mass. A working 500 would be my measure.
Apologies folks - I should have quoted the original. Yes it was in response to the post mentioned above.
I have sympathy with those cursed with 'The Problem' for sure, and while I'll admit to the ecoboost having the wow factor, it's not comparable with the FIRE 1.2 and shouldn't be used as the yardstick by which to measure performance.
By all means use another normally aspirated 1.2 engine in a car with similar mass. A working 500 would be my measure.
My thoughts exactly. But sadly some in this thread have gone beyond being reasonable and objective.
Apologies folks - I should have quoted the original. Yes it was in response to the post mentioned above.
I have sympathy with those cursed with 'The Problem' for sure, and while I'll admit to the ecoboost having the wow factor, it's not comparable with the FIRE 1.2 and shouldn't be used as the yardstick by which to measure performance.
By all means use another normally aspirated 1.2 engine in a car with similar mass. A working 500 would be my measure.
As previously mentioned I'll throw the 1.2 engine suzuki use in the swift in. 94hp, same tax band as the 500 and very similar economy. Released in the new swift back in 2011, recently heavily reworked (dual jet) as an option in the current swift and presumed to be fitted to the new swift in the next couple of years.
Absolutely none of this crap, bomb proof and starts at £1500 less than the 500. Also always seemed much quicker than the 500 when I had it- more so than the performance figures would suggest.
Don't think this sort of issue is endemic to small N/A petrol engines with the new legislation- as we all (?) agree FIAT have (badly) dropped a bollock on this one.
The initial issue is one of those things that happens to some extent (though how it was missed in testing, lord only knows), the continuing "Oh, they all do that Sir" or "Oh, it's a characteristic and you just need to adapt your driving style" is farcical and way, way below standard.
Do not forget that FIAT are charging premium prices for the 500 now- the service needs to start matching those prices. Or does it? Will people buy them anyway?
Hopefully the solution is now starting to come through and will put this to bed once and for all.
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Yes, but there's no need to go off the deep end as some have done. It's possible to have a car with issues and maintain relations with reality and reason.
True but I can see why, after paying good money for a new car with a pretty obvious defect (and, to be fair to David, having pretty solid evidence of a problem of some sort), being stonewalled by dealer, FIAT and the finance company with "there's nothing wrong" people get a bit narked.
I wouldn't be pleased if I'd spent 12k+ on a supermini and ended up with this crap.
IMO the Swift is a far better engineered car than the 500.
Ignoring looks, fashion and kerb appeal, from a technical perspective the 500 is worth Panda money at best.
This is starting to be reflected in the used market now - 500 residuals have dropped considerably in recent months.
Folks who bought the 500 at launch and sold after 2-4yrs did exceptionally well; current purchasers may not be so fortunate and I'd be surprised if someone buying a new 500 on a pcp today had any significant equity in the car at the end of the term.
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Interesting- probably explains why mine's still up with the dealer who bought it from Suzuki despite being reduced by a grand.
Taking Suzuki's cut, the cost of an MOT, service and warranty, the dealer will be hard pushed to turn a profit at this rate.
Have FIAT started discounting on list yet?
Neither would I, but I wouldn't let this sort of thing happen
Thing is, what exactly can you do in practice?
Right here in this thread we have plenty of examples of folks being both reasonable and unreasonable; almost all have had the same stonewalling response from the supplying dealer.
car would have been rejected as unfit for purpose weeks after purchase.
Fallback would have been to park it up outside the dealers with a printed up sign with a phone number for potential buyers to call me on.
Going slightly off topic, but the SMMT figures for 2014 are out now:
http://www.smmt.co.uk/2015/01/uk-new-car-registrations-december-2014/
Fiat registered 67,162 cars in the UK in 2014, of which 44,005 were 500s (making it the 9th most popular car in the UK for 2014). So it's still by far and away Fiat's best seller.
Even with the onset of this 1.2 problem, sales have still been holding up at around 3k per month since September 2014 (when the 500 was the sixth best selling car that month with 9,122 registrations).
December 2014 was fairly quiet, but it's hard to say whether that's just down to the time of the year, or if people genuinely are steering clear. We'll have to see what happens over the next six months I guess.
http://www.smmt.co.uk/2015/01/uk-new-car-registrations-december-2014/
Fiat registered 67,162 cars in the UK in 2014, of which 44,005 were 500s (making it the 9th most popular car in the UK for 2014). So it's still by far and away Fiat's best seller.
Even with the onset of this 1.2 problem, sales have still been holding up at around 3k per month since September 2014 (when the 500 was the sixth best selling car that month with 9,122 registrations).
December 2014 was fairly quiet, but it's hard to say whether that's just down to the time of the year, or if people genuinely are steering clear. We'll have to see what happens over the next six months I guess.
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I suggested this idea to, I think, ab4444 a while ago in this thread.
Have done it before, and it works a treat, the proviso being only use as a last resort, having being reasonable and polite first, as it tends to get the dealer's back up.
Got me a result and a call from the dealer pretty much immediately, having previously being repeatedly fobbed off.
We ended on good terms, but I wouldn't ever go back there.
When will dealers ever learn- treat your customers well, and they will come back.
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I ran an old gen swift with a 1 litre engine for 10 years, and besides normal servicing, didn't cost me a penny and never once went wrong.
It was quite possibly the nastiest car I have ever had, but it served it's purpose well as a second car.
Japanese engineering is without doubt the best, especially the older Toyotas and mazdas, yaris and mazda2 1.3 chains are absolutely bullet proof engines.
Agree the fire 1.2 is too, notwithstanding the current electronic based farce.
redgobofraggle
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Ok, having done a Little testing last night with my Ford KA......
Firstly, I live in a very hilly region in the North east of England, so this should be relevant info.....
Driving normally round non hilly areas- car is extremely nippy. No problem pulling away etc.it drives like a dream when.compared to my 61 and 62 plate Ford KAs I have had.
Standard driving on hilly areas while moving- again, it beats both previous Ford HAs when.driving up some very steep hills, and I'm not having to downshift as much.
Hill start- the car sounds and feels like it's got the clutch bite point. Try and pull away, it sounds like it's going to stall, but it chugs away and then.picks up speed. If I try and compensate, the revs shoot up to 3000 rpm. It also seems to happen more if I have the handbrake on when hill starting. If I use the hill assist without using the handbrake, it still does it but not quite as much.
As it's only really steep hills where I usually rake the handbrake on, I'm not sure if this could be a factor and hill assist without the handbrake is controlling things differently.
Other than that as I say, the car beats previous years models easily, and certainly is not sluggish.
Firstly, I live in a very hilly region in the North east of England, so this should be relevant info.....
Driving normally round non hilly areas- car is extremely nippy. No problem pulling away etc.it drives like a dream when.compared to my 61 and 62 plate Ford KAs I have had.
Standard driving on hilly areas while moving- again, it beats both previous Ford HAs when.driving up some very steep hills, and I'm not having to downshift as much.
Hill start- the car sounds and feels like it's got the clutch bite point. Try and pull away, it sounds like it's going to stall, but it chugs away and then.picks up speed. If I try and compensate, the revs shoot up to 3000 rpm. It also seems to happen more if I have the handbrake on when hill starting. If I use the hill assist without using the handbrake, it still does it but not quite as much.
As it's only really steep hills where I usually rake the handbrake on, I'm not sure if this could be a factor and hill assist without the handbrake is controlling things differently.
Other than that as I say, the car beats previous years models easily, and certainly is not sluggish.
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