I've been looking at new cars and it looks like my choice will be between a Hyundai i10 and a Fiat 500. The 500 looks much better, is a much higher quality inside, is faster, slightly more economical (I think), and has much better suspension. With the spec I want it will cost about £5000+ extra though.

I'm a little concerned about the gearboxes. I have a Panda 100HP at the moment with a rubbish gearbox, and that is the main reason why I am looking for another car. I've driven a few other Fiats now and have found all their gearboxes to be a bit notchy when cold. How consistent is this? Do people find this varies a lot?

The 500 I would go for would be the 1.2 (or maybe the 875cc Turbo) so it will have the 5 speed 'box rather than the 6 speed I have in my Panda 100HP. My Panda is often quite notchy, even when warm, but occassionally does other things that I think must be faults. The Fiat dealer say that there is nothing wrong with my gearbox, so maybe my one is just a bit worse than the others? If I get a 500 I won't be able to afford to replace it after a couple of years, so I really need to be sure that it's going to work properly. The gearbox in the i10 that I test drove was flawless from cold.

I was told today that the Twinair is not expected to arrive until just before Christmas, possibly November. Can you wait that long?

Why not take it for a test drive? Most people complement the 500 on the quality of its gearbox so I shouldn't worry.

I found the 6 speed on the 1.4 pretty smooth (same as that in the 100HP Panda) but as you say, i think it varies from car to car. I think with having the lever high on the dash, some serious gear linkage mods were required, which can sometimes give a slightly numb artificial feeling as it's less direct. That's my theory anyway! I also find the gearbox on the A500 notchy until fully warmed up, must be the gearbox oil that fiat use!

the gearchange on the 1,2 was one of my fave aspects of the 500- the location of the gear stick even more so-

def not a reason to avoid...

and fiat 500 or hyundai I10?....big big difference-

btw the car mags all rave about the I10s chassis- whereas on the 500- not so much...

The I10 often gets referred to on the other forum as a "Wheelie bin" (waits for "is an interior cat an option" pun ) there's nothing about that car that would make me want to own it at all. Why are car designers still designing cars that are taller than they are wider? Bad idea

The gearbox in my 1.2 lounge is silky smooth, even when the engine is cold. I also like the way that with care, I can engage reverse gear with the lifting collar silently and acurately. With some cars I've driven in the past, selecting reverse was always accompanied with a crunch. The clutch also is very smooth. Gearchanges can be done "invisibly" with care.

On mine I've got a slight "graunch" going into third from second and a subtle one from third to fourth. Is intermittent, but feels like a bit of a synchro problem but gets better when the synchro needs to work harder (more revs). Suspect a slight linkage misadjustment and will query it at upcoming service.

Ulpian said:

I was told today that the Twinair is not expected to arrive until just before Christmas, possibly November. Can you wait that long?

Why not take it for a test drive? Most people complement the 500 on the quality of its gearbox so I shouldn't worry.

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Ah, I've been wanting to know when the Twin Air is going to arrive. I will wait that long. I don't want to order until next year.

I've had a 500 over night. The gearbox was perfect on the 1st day, but a bit notchy the second day when old. Nowhere near as bad as my Panda though, and it was a much smoother box. Both the lever movement and the change of the gears were much smoother.

From peoples posts it definately sounds like some are better than others. I've had all the linkages on my gearbox checked, so it's nothing that simple for me.

DraigFlag87 said:

The I10 often gets referred to on the other forum as a "Wheelie bin" (waits for "is an interior cat an option" pun ) there's nothing about that car that would make me want to own it at all. Why are car designers still designing cars that are taller than they are wider? Bad idea

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lol, they really aren't that bad, although everything did feel plasticy. My biggest issues was that the ride was too bouncy, and it felt very cheap inside. It felt very average. The engine is economical, and performs quite nicely, but I think the 1.2 in the 500 is more fun. You can do a lot worse than an i10, but I'm not sure whether it would put a smile on my face.

DraigFlag87 said:

The I10 often gets referred to on the other forum as a "Wheelie bin" (waits for "is an interior cat an option" pun ) there's nothing about that car that would make me want to own it at all. Why are car designers still designing cars that are taller than they are wider? Bad idea

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Because for people like me I need the height! for leg and head room!!!!

TallTom said:

Because for people like me I need the height! for leg and head room!!!!

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I'm tall too, and have got long legs and big feet, but I've always had small cars, I've learnt to fold myself into them and make do. You should see me in the 126, one shoe covers all 3 pedals and i have to move my left leg over every time i need to change gear!

DraigFlag87 said:

Why are car designers still designing cars that are taller than they are wider? Bad idea

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They aren't? Well at least not the i10 at least

http://www.cardekho.com/cars-search/i10-era-length-width

306maxi said:

They aren't? Well at least not the i10 at least

http://www.cardekho.com/cars-search/i10-era-length-width

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Sorry i should have said "that look taller" and there's not much in it anyway!

People are all talking about the same gear box here, yet have different experiences. I think it proves the subjective nature of what a "good" gearbox is. All gearboxes have significantly worse changes when cold. The changing mech (cables) is almost identical on both these cars too. The 5 and 6 speed versions of any of the models discussed are the same box known as a "C514". I don't think it is the most refined box on the change as some out there in this age of luxury mototring.

@FireballXL5man: You will only get a crunch into reverse if you don't wait long enough for the gearbox to spin down with the clutch depressed. It is not possible to make a crunch noise whilst going into any gear whilst the car is staionary and the clutch has been depressed for 5 seconds. Only a few cars have syncro on reverse which can make reverse changes quicker and smoother.

lewey said:

People are all talking about the same gear box here, yet have different experiences. I think it proves the subjective nature of what a "good" gearbox is. All gearboxes have significantly worse changes when cold. The changing mech (cables) is almost identical on both these cars too. The 5 and 6 speed versions of any of the models discussed are the same box known as a "C514". I don't think it is the most refined box on the change as some out there in this age of luxury mototring.

@FireballXL5man: You will only get a crunch into reverse if you don't wait long enough for the gearbox to spin down with the clutch depressed. It is not possible to make a crunch noise whilst going into any gear whilst the car is staionary and the clutch has been depressed for 5 seconds. Only a few cars have syncro on reverse which can make reverse changes quicker and smoother.

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Yeah.

The fact that the gear lever is in the same place on the Panda and 500 should tell people that they're the same linkage and like you say the actual boxes are the same....

I think the 500's gearshift is OK, far better than the Subaru which is VERY VERY notchy. The 500 could be better, but the positioning of the gearshift lever makes up for it.

lewey said:

People are all talking about the same gear box here, yet have different experiences. I think it proves the subjective nature of what a "good" gearbox is. All gearboxes have significantly worse changes when cold. The changing mech (cables) is almost identical on both these cars too. The 5 and 6 speed versions of any of the models discussed are the same box known as a "C514". I don't think it is the most refined box on the change as some out there in this age of luxury mototring.

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I don't think it is quite that simple. I own a 6 speed Panda, have driven a 5 speed 500, and a 5 speed GP (is that the same 'box)? The gearboxes were all very different, no doubt about it. I do wonder how much was because of the model and how much was because of inconsistent build quality. The only thing they had in common was their notchyness, but some were worse than others. The GP felt like sponge, it was terrible, and very notchy. My 100HP is even worse, but doesn't feel spongey at all. The 500 was the hardly notchy at all (but that could have been due to the weather) and was definately the nicest (not a hard as the 100HP, but not as soft as the GP).

Advanced Driver said:

I don't think it is quite that simple. I own a 6 speed Panda, have driven a 5 speed 500, and a 5 speed GP (is that the same 'box)? The gearboxes were all very different, no doubt about it. I do wonder how much was because of the model and how much was because of inconsistent build quality. The only thing they had in common was their notchyness, but some were worse than others. The GP felt like sponge, it was terrible, and very notchy. My 100HP is even worse, but doesn't feel spongey at all. The 500 was the hardly notchy at all (but that could have been due to the weather) and was definately the nicest (not a hard as the 100HP, but not as soft as the GP).

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The boxes are the same.... and the linkages are the same.....

The 5 and 6 speed boxes in the lighter petrol cars really are the same, they just have another gear pair stuck on the end of the shafts. It makes no difference to the change 1-5.

5 speed GP will be a different box as they only put a six speed c514 box. Will have been a 1.3 diesel or a T-Jet. Either way its the old C510 gearbox used for the old Uno Turbo amongst other things!

SO basically, there is little or no technical difference with the boxes, yet all these experiences come out. I find it difficult to accept that there are manufacturing tolerances large enough to change the whole feel of the box. I just finished putting one back together and the precision in them is very high. Slightly out, and it just wouldn't work.

The only thing that FIAT do change (even between some models) is the weights used on the end of the selector shaft. They have got larger and larger over the years and more leverage put on the gearstick to try and give the "effortless feeling" of changing gear. This can impact the sensation you feel as you move the gear stick, but won't affect the ability to change, unless you are like the old Mr Muscle.

Drove the wife's new 1.2 Lounge yesterday (she got it Wednesday) and found both the gearbox and steering to be fantastic.

I like the fact the gears are quite close together - something I've been used to in the sports cars I've had in recent years. The gear changes seem extremely smooth. Even the mrs has commented on it, and she has no interest in cars whatsoever - she was actually the most miserable, uninterested new car buyer I've ever known on Wednesday!

senwar said:

Drove the wife's new 1.2 Lounge yesterday (she got it Wednesday) and found both the gearbox and steering to be fantastic.

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It's good because it's new! Reading through my last posts I am aware that they could be interpreted like I'm saying I don't believe that people can experience differences with the gearboxes in the cars they ahve driven.

What I didn't point out is that wear is the biggest factor along with oil (if box old enough or has been changed for some other reason) in the different impressions between boxes. A "notchy" feeling box can occur after only a few hundred miles with a bad driver or one with little mechanical sympathy. Difference in feel of boxes on cars using the same equipment is more of a reflection on the driver you borrow the car off and how warm teh gearbox is before making a judgement.