Pazzo500 said:

As general advice, NAPA autoparts and some other stores in the U.S. rent specialty tools for ridiculously cheap/and/or for free. Definitely look into them as an option!

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Hi, I actually ended up going to Autozone and renting a finger type bearing puller for free, but of course it was too big for the job Ended up using wrenches + rubber mallet combo to get behind the bearings and ease them off.

Pazzo500 said:

When you say you replaced the piston, do you mean the brake cylinder (the thing at the top with rubber at each end that presses against the two brake pads)? It's normal for the new brakes to rub, and near impossible to settle exactly in place by tapping them about. The best method that I know of is to get up to 40mph and slam on the brakes, then rev it up in reverse to a high rpm (15mph?) and lock up the brakes! Repeat 2-3 times and see if the brakes are in a better place.

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I replaced the brake cylinder, but I've also replaced the main brake pump. I will try out the brake adjustment once I've finished all the brake job. I'm dealing with the wrong copper lines (long nipple instead of the correct short nipple).

Also, having replaced all the lines, cylinders and main pump, whats the best way of getting air out of the system without damaging the parts. Do I need to open all the bleed nipples on the cylinders initially when filling the system with brake fluid?

fiat500 said:

There are quite few threads on here which deal with the various aspects of that job; you will find them by searching "hub bearings" or similar in the box at the head of the Forum page.

For a starter though, which of the sets of four bolts are you thinking of first? You know how to get the drum off although separating that is not strictly essential at the rear and worth keeping on at this stage. The first thing is to remove the splined, driveshaft coupling inboard of the hub. That is the four 13mm head bolts (setscrews) which screw into the aluminium coupling. These can be quite tight and often have worn heads. Easiest removed with a really good ring-spanner. Keep the car on the ground and roll it along to improve access to all four. When removed, clean flaky bits off the driveshaft and push the cast-iron coupling towards the gearbox a tad. You should be able to wiggle the shaft away, retrieve a small spring (which may be broken) that sits in the end of it, and you will see a very large nut............
To be continued I am sure......

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To be continued indeed

I will try to avoid messing with that for a little longer. But thanks for the explanation.

Hobo1960 said:

I've just finished a complete overhaul of my brakes and had similar problems to you with rubbing brakes. As Pazzo 500 said, if the rubbing is slight, I wouldn't worry about it. On my car the rear drums were very difficult to turn. To solve the problem I gently levered the shoes back where the adjusters are, using the flange on the back plate as a fulcrum point. Don't over do the levering as you don't want to damage the flange. Some people use a block of wood (to protect the linings) and hammer the shoes back.

I also discovered that my handbrake cable adjustment was wrong for the new shoes and this meant that with the handbrake released the brakes were still on enough to prevent the drums turning.

As Pazzo 500 said, when you've finished working on the brakes, you'll probably find that you've got too much pedal travel. Do what Passo said driving forward and in reverse at 10 to 15mph and repeatedly stamp on the pedal. The pedal travel will reduce as the brakes self adjust. I haven't done any work on rear bearings yet so can't give any advice on the work involved.

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I used a rubber mallet to move the pads around, especially the fronts which when initially mounted were too high up and rubbed against the new drums. The rears are not completely stuck, but there is some contact between pads and new drums.

Will do as suggested. I also noticed that on the rear pads, the ones closest to the front of the car tend to jump out of their seat when I manually pulled the hand brake cable, this was with the drum off, so I guess with the drum off there wouldn't be space for them to move as much.


Thanks everyone for all the help

Quick question, what's the smartest way of mounting the grease caps on the front brakes? I tried hammering them in with a mallet and they won't slide in.



Also, just want to see if anyone can give their opinion on what the correct way of filling and bleeding the brake system after replacing brake piston, cylinders, lines etc. System is dry at the moment.

turbo500 said:

Quick question, what's the smartest way of mounting the grease caps on the front brakes? I tried hammering them in with a mallet and they won't slide in.

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Hmm interesting. When I did mine they just slid back nicely on top. There must be something obstructing it or a poor fit?

With the brakes popping out, I think that's normal because the springs pull on the front portion of the pads. Mine did the same with the hub off, but when back on drove perfectly.

I've tried the stamping method a bit but didn't manage to reduce brake pedal travel but looks like you're doing a full bleed anyway. I imagine it would be as per normal, filling the reservoir and starting with the brake furthest away, always being sure that there's enough fluid on board

turbo500 said:

Quick question, what's the smartest way of mounting the grease caps on the front brakes?

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There was a special Fiat tool for that. I found that I had a large socket that was a perfect fit on the flange of the grease-cap.

BambinoClassic said:

Hmm interesting. When I did mine they just slid back nicely on top. There must be something obstructing it or a poor fit?

With the brakes popping out, I think that's normal because the springs pull on the front portion of the pads. Mine did the same with the hub off, but when back on drove perfectly.

I've tried the stamping method a bit but didn't manage to reduce brake pedal travel but looks like you're doing a full bleed anyway. I imagine it would be as per normal, filling the reservoir and starting with the brake furthest away, always being sure that there's enough fluid on board

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Should I open the bleed valves on all the brake cylinders initially? I'm scared of damaging them by pushing only air through them.

turbo500 said:

Should I open the bleed valves on all the brake cylinders initially? I'm scared of damaging them by pushing only air through them.

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Ah, that I'm not sure of. The only way I do it that differs to the manual is to have someone else at the pedal, and at the bottom of their downstroke, close the valve. Then reopen for them to push down. I think if you open them all at once, you run the risk of air being pulled back in somewhere, but that could just be me overthinking.

turbo500 said:

Should I open the bleed valves on all the brake cylinders initially? I'm scared of damaging them by pushing only air through them.

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Fill the reservoir up to the line for max. Then pump it through the system with the foot pedal and keep topping up if necessary, with all the bleed nipples closed. Then as bambinoclassic says start at the wheel cylinder furthest from the reservoir. Open the bleed nipple with a little piece of clear tube attached to the nipple into a jam jar or such like with some brake fluid in the bottom of the jar and the clear pipe submerged in it, so you are not drawing air back into the system once the pedal has returned to its normal resting position.

Pump the footpeddle until you stop see air bubbles in the clear pipe but remember to keep topping up the reservoir at the same time. It's really a two person job, you can get one man kits but I have never been a great fan of them on the 500. Once no air bubbles are seen in the clear tube, lock off the nipple with the foot pedal fully depressed and move onto the next furthest wheel cylinder and carry out the same process. Then repeat on the remaining wheel cylinders. You will probably have to carry out the whole process from the start a couple of times, starting at the furthest wheel cylinder just to ensure you have cleared all the air. Hopefully by then you should have a nice solid pedal, you will get some travel on the pedal until the pedal pin depresses the master cylinder.

You won't damage the component putting air only through them. But carried out correctly you should only initially be putting just air through until the fluid works its way through the pipes to the wheel cylinders.

Grab your wife or a friend and sit them in the driving seat to do the pedal work, you just have to shout out clear instructions for them to depress the pedal slowly, not fast as that will make the fluid bubble and when to keep the pedal depressed when you are happy you can see no more bubbles, so you can lock off the nipple each time.

Tony

I should add when initially pumping fluid through the system with someone in the car doing the pedal work. Initially the fluid in the reservoir will go down quite quickly, probably after a couple of depressions of the pedal, so each time you go to check the level of the reservoir and to top it up make sure you lock the nipple off with the pedal fully depressed before you go to check.

Tony

turbo500 said:

Quick question, what's the smartest way of mounting the grease caps on the front brakes? I tried hammering them in with a mallet and they won't slide in.

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You could do as Peter suggests or use a short length of exhaust pipe or pvc plumbing drain pipe, anything that just fits over the grease cap but pushes against the flange. Check that there's no damage to the lip of the cap. You could file a small chamfer on the lip if it's a tight fit in the hub, just to get it to start in, then tap it home.

Al.

Ok, so I installed brand new brake pump, brake cylinders, copper brake lines, pads, drums.

Filled up the brake fluid reservoir, with all the nipples closed and went to pump the brake pedal....nothing. Completely no resistance.

Tried again, and again and again, brake fluid is not moving from the reservoir. The brake pin from the pedal seems to be correctly placed and I can hear something clicking as it's depressed initially.

I tried opening the nipples to try to move the fluid but still won't go.

Am I missing something?? :bang:

Could be a blockage in the hose between the reservoir and master cylinder? Or could be a number of other things. Time to get methodical and start at the beginning and work forward.
I would start by taking off the hose from the reservoir at the master cylinder. If fluid comes out the master cylinder is getting fluid if not you have a blockage. If your getting a supply I would then disconnect your front lines at the master cylinder. You can get away with loosening them a couple of turns. Pump the pedal and you should get fluid coming out of the unions. Do same for rears and just go round the circuit until you find the problem. You'll soon get to the bottom of it. It will be messy, awkward and you'll lose a bit of fluid but necessary

What I don't get is when I tried the front right, it worked, after 10-20 pumps of the pedal. But the rears are not giving any sign of fluid. I checked the unions between the brake pump and copper line that brings fluid to the rear axle and there was definitely liquid in there.

Because all the components are new they are full of air. One thing you could try is to leave one of the rear brake nipples open with a pipe attached to the nipple into an empty jar. Leave the rest of the nipples closed. It should gravity feed the fluid through the system of its own accord it may take some time though. You will also need to keep an eye on the level in the reservoir if it does start to go down.

The other alternative is in the UK they sell a one man kit called the Gunson Eezibleed. It has a bottle that attaches to the top of the reservoir and also to the spare wheel to force the fluid through the system using the spare wheel air pressure. They must sell something similar in the US?

Ok so I eventually managed. I guess there was a TON of air in the lines, because I had to start from the front right, then moved to rear right, then front left and finally rear left (this took over a minute of pumping the brakes to get any sign of life).

I went over them all 3 times to make sure all air was out. When I turned on the car I didn't really get a great brake pedal feel. I still haven't done a 40kmh brake adjustment or the reverse adjustment yet so I'm hoping that will help.

Also, I don't know whats going on, but I've noticed that when I come to a stop, the car tends to die. It turns on no problem, but it just seems every time I decelerate it sputters and turns off. I read somewhere this might be a air hose issue (the one from the airbox to the carb) and others have said it might be the carb (float or something else). I'm hoping it's something silly...

Someone else mentioned cleaning the idling jet, as it seems to be the common cause for the car dying when coming to a stop. Anyone know how to do this or have a guide?

I'm not with my car at the moment as I'm having my modern car tested. But I think the idle jet is held inside the brass screw-holder just above the mixture screw. You'll find it looking above the throttle stop screw facing the rear of the car. The screw is removed with s flat-head driver and should have a nylon washer under it. Once out, the tiny jet pulls out of the holder and can be blown out. Push it part way back into the holder and then screw that back in carefully.
All this from hazy memory and I am aware that there is some variation in carburetors.

Hi Peter,

So I found an image someone else on this forum photographed of the carb (26 IMB), this is the assembly of the idle jet:



So is it as simple as unscrewing, clean with brake cleaner/compressor and then screw it back in? There is no fine tuning necessary or adjustments?

I would like to avoid being stuck with a non working car while I wait for a replacement o-ring or something.... :S

Thanks

turbo500 said:

So is it as simple as unscrewing, clean with brake cleaner/compressor and then screw it back in? There is no fine tuning necessary or adjustments?

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Excellent image.

I usually hold the jet up to the light to see any obvious blockage, but it's rare to conclusively find anything. As long as you don't use anything to physically scour the jet and don't misplace the washer under the holder and don't overtighten, then you won't makethings worse.
For some reason you are not supposed to push the jet back in all the way but let the action of screwing it in to the carb make it find its level.
No further action required after that.

Thanks for the explanation. I'm guessing the jet has to be placed with the hole on the side pointing in the same direction?

Also, the screw needs to be screwed in fully yes? Not like the screws for the air/idle...


Is there anything else I could check for that is causing my 500 to turn off when coming to a stop?

turbo500 said:

Thanks for the explanation. I'm guessing the jet has to be placed with the hole on the side pointing in the same direction? 1)

Also, the screw needs to be screwed in fully yes? Not like the screws for the air/idle... 2)


Is there anything else I could check for that is causing my 500 to turn off when coming to a stop?3)

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1)It doesn't matter where the hole on the side is pointing, the fuel can still get into the jet and out the metered hole, there's plenty of room around the jet inside the carb.

2)Yes, screwed in fully but just nipped up, don't tighten too hard.

3)Check idle speed is not too low.
Check carb. is not flooding. Check float valve condition and float level.
There may be other reasons.....

Al.