Technical No connection to ECU

[Eb Wijkstra]

Hi,

I am a newbie at this forum although many years ago got some good advice from the forum.

I have a Fiat Ducato Multijet Maxi built up as an Eura mobile Terrestra 690, built in 2012. We bought the unit in Germany in 2012 and after a 5-month stint in Europe, shipped the unit to New Zealand, where we picked up the camper first week of Jan 2013.

Although we had quite some trouble with the engine. First we encountered a malfunctioning booster solenoid in 2014, replaced it. After about 40.000km according to the Fiat dealer in Dunedin, it developed a malfunction of the turbo charger. Exchanged it for a new one. Still the yellow engine light came on and they came to the conclusion, it was a faulty ECU unit. Replaced the unit, but still no joy. Yellow engine light was still on. The scan showed DPF full 120%. So the DFP was cleaned. Still no joy. The end conclusion was: Must be a faulty sensor. Replaced the sensor and bingo, problems gone.
Once more a red light warning. Something to do with the airbags, hence another diagnosis and conclusion: faulty/corroded sensor. New one and since then no more problems re engine lights etc.
I was told the service check could not be updated, because the vehicle was to old (less the 10 years old), which to me was just a fob-off excuse and did not believe them
So I decided myself to plug in the Multiecuscan software. Whatever I try, with 3 different ELM327 interfaces, connection failed to ECU. The ELM327 is the correct one and not a Chinese clone. Now I understood why they could not update the maintenance info. Although nobody else ever connected anything to the engine's ECU, I am convinced somebody at the service station caused this problem. This of course is denied in all its glory.

My question to this forum is: Does anybody know why I cannot connect to the ECU or any advice what to do next please.

Fiat Ducato
MultiJet Maxi
3ltr, 4 cylinder diesel engine
130kW/177HP
92000km

Many thanks in advance.

Kind regards,

Eb Wijkstra
Invercargill, 9812
New Zealand

 

[HughJampton]

I suspect this will be of little help, but there are two different ECUs fitted to the 3.0 (I suspect dependent on build date). They appear under "type 250 3.0 Multijet" and "type 250 facelift 3.0 multijet". You have selected the correct one? (If you haven't, it will refuse to connect - though I think it does give you a message re: wrong ISO code or similar).

You might try the "F11 (Scan)" option, which should identify all the modules it can find on the CanBus.

 

[kik]

Does it connect to another module? ABS, body, airbag? If it is not possible that there is a problem with the wiring, then the OBD socket.

 

[Eb Wijkstra]

I suspect this will be of little help, but there are two different ECUs fitted to the 3.0 (I suspect dependent on build date). They appear under "type 250 3.0 Multijet" and "type 250 facelift 3.0 multijet". You have selected the correct one? (If you haven't, it will refuse to connect - though I think it does give you a message re: wrong ISO code or similar).

You might try the "F11 (Scan)" option, which should identify all the modules it can find on the CanBus.

Thank you for your reply.
Yes, I am aware of the different models. I have chosen the "Type 250 3.0 MultiJet" which is the correct one.
When I connect via Scan DTC or just Scan only the last 4 modules are detected. To me it looks like there is something wrong with the plug connections or in worst cse the ECU sensor is somewhat malfunctioning.

 

[Eb Wijkstra]

Does it connect to another module? ABS, body, airbag? If it is not possible that there is a problem with the wiring, then the OBD socket.

Yes it does, but only to the last 4 modules after I do a Scan or Scan DTC

 

[Eb Wijkstra]

Does it connect to another module? ABS, body, airbag? If it is not possible that there is a problem with the wiring, then the OBD socket.

Scanning ...

Body / BCM (Body Control Module)
Body Computer Marelli (250FL)
ISO Code: 40 83 6D 8A 8F

Airbag / NAB/ORC (Airbag/Occupant Restraint Module)
TRW Airbag (Ep - PROXI)
ISO Code: EA 07 B9 8A 89

Dashboard / IPC (Instrument Panel Cluster)
Instrument Panel Marelli
ISO Code: 32 83 D3 8A 67

COMPLETED

Interface scan gives the following message:

Please connect the interface to a car!
Scanning ...

ELM 327 1.3/1.4/1.4b/2.1 interface found at port COM3, speed 38400bps
This interface is compatible with ELM 327 1.4! Should connect properly with all CAN modules.

COMPLETED


These are the modules scanning. The other 6 or so modules nothing.

 

[Eb Wijkstra]

I suspect this will be of little help, but there are two different ECUs fitted to the 3.0 (I suspect dependent on build date). They appear under "type 250 3.0 Multijet" and "type 250 facelift 3.0 multijet". You have selected the correct one? (If you haven't, it will refuse to connect - though I think it does give you a message re: wrong ISO code or similar).

You might try the "F11 (Scan)" option, which should identify all the modules it can find on the CanBus.

Scanning ...

Body / BCM (Body Control Module)
Body Computer Marelli (250FL)
ISO Code: 40 83 6D 8A 8F

Airbag / NAB/ORC (Airbag/Occupant Restraint Module)
TRW Airbag (Ep - PROXI)
ISO Code: EA 07 B9 8A 89

Dashboard / IPC (Instrument Panel Cluster)
Instrument Panel Marelli
ISO Code: 32 83 D3 8A 67

COMPLETED

Interface scan gives the following message:

Please connect the interface to a car!
Scanning ...

ELM 327 1.3/1.4/1.4b/2.1 interface found at port COM3, speed 38400bps
This interface is compatible with ELM 327 1.4! Should connect properly with all CAN modules.

COMPLETED

These are the only modules detected

 

[AndyRKett]

Try manually setting the connection setting and drop the speed (baud rate) drop it down bit by bit to see if it will have more success in connecting. Also look at the MES website and check you don’t need to modify the ELM device. The “proper” ones and the “Chinese clones” I understand can still have the resistor or capacitor (I forget now) linked to the ground plane and if they are it causes problems with the function.

You have to also remember that MES is not a professional product and does not subscribe to any fiat licence or agreements, it “should” work but there are never any guarantees it will work with every single car.

If problems persist then the MES forum would be a better place to get advice.

 

[Eb Wijkstra]

Try manually setting the connection setting and drop the speed (baud rate) drop it down bit by bit to see if it will have more success in connecting. Also look at the MES website and check you don’t need to modify the ELM device. The “proper” ones and the “Chinese clones” I understand can still have the resistor or capacitor (I forget now) linked to the ground plane and if they are it causes problems with the function.

You have to also remember that MES is not a professional product and does not subscribe to any fiat licence or agreements, it “should” work but there are never any guarantees it will work with every single car.

If problems persist then the MES forum would be a better place to get advice.

Hi Andy,

Thanks for your reply.

I have tried all kind of things. Also by using a different scanning program (TOAD Scan) then MultiEcuScan.
I know the interface is correct. Have used it before on this camper and another one with the same motor, but built in 2014.
When I scan I get the following result:

Scanning ...

Body / BCM (Body Control Module)
Body Computer Marelli (250FL)
ISO Code: 40 83 6D 8A 8F

Airbag / NAB/ORC (Airbag/Occupant Restraint Module)
TRW Airbag (Ep - PROXI)
ISO Code: EA 07 B9 8A 89

Dashboard / IPC (Instrument Panel Cluster)
Instrument Panel Marelli
ISO Code: 32 83 D3 8A 67

COMPLETED

Interface scan gives the following message:

Please connect the interface to a car!
Scanning ...

ELM 327 1.3/1.4/1.4b/2.1 interface found at port COM3, speed 38400bps
This interface is compatible with ELM 327 1.4! Should connect properly with all CAN modules.

COMPLETED

These are the only modules detected.

Iam more and more convinced, something from the OBD plug to the ECU is somewhere malfunctioning.

Kind reagards,

Eb W.

 

[s130]

I assume you have seen/checked the supported vehicles list here: http://www.multiecuscan.net/SupportedVehiclesList.aspx

Your results seem a little odd as you think your are Ducator Type 250 3.0 Multijet and for this vehicle everything (except power steering) is CAN based.

I presume you have the required A3 adaptor? If not you need to get that adapter.

Failing that then I think the problem lies with your ELM adapter. If I were you I would get a genuine OBDLink SX interface. To my knowledge nobody has ever had any issues with this interface. It also supports firmware updates (if ever required e.g for Pass Through protocal to Fiat/Other servers).

 

[AndyRKett]

ELM 327 1.3/1.4/1.4b/2.1 interface found at port COM3, speed 38400bps
This interface is compatible with ELM 327 1.4! Should connect properly with all CAN modules.

COMPLETED

These are the only modules detected.

Iam more and more convinced, something from the OBD plug to the ECU is somewhere malfunctioning.

I would still drop the Baud rate down, manually configure the connection. MES is not a fool proof high end program.

maybe try it on a different Com port and see if you get the same, it can be temperamental at times. What I would not do is wish for there to be an issue with the car (van) because 1 no one here is going to be able to fix that and 2 that's going to get very expensive for you.


Going back to a point you made about updates not being done because of the age, this may simply be they are no longer available because of the age of the vehicle. Fiat have just completely killed all support for blue and me which they were still putting in cars up until 2015, they do not have to support vehicles for ever or keep software updates available forever, normally they only support things for about 7 - 10 years, Its no different to having an old 10 year old iPhone and not being able to update to the latest software.

 

[Eb Wijkstra]

I would still drop the Baud rate down, manually configure the connection. MES is not a fool proof high end program.

maybe try it on a different Com port and see if you get the same, it can be temperamental at times. What I would not do is wish for there to be an issue with the car (van) because 1 no one here is going to be able to fix that and 2 that's going to get very expensive for you.


Going back to a point you made about updates not being done because of the age, this may simply be they are no longer available because of the age of the vehicle. Fiat have just completely killed all support for blue and me which they were still putting in cars up until 2015, they do not have to support vehicles for ever or keep software updates available forever, normally they only support things for about 7 - 10 years, Its no different to having an old 10 year old iPhone and not being able to update to the latest software.

Yes, I realize that. I seem to have little or no other options. Have dropped the baud rate as well. No difference.
I looked at an OBDlink SX unit. Price US$150.00 due to the extreme high cost of shipping.

Thanks anyway for your help. Much appreciated.

Regards,

Eb W.

 

[Eb Wijkstra]

I assume you have seen/checked the supported vehicles list here: http://www.multiecuscan.net/SupportedVehiclesList.aspx

Your results seem a little odd as you think your are Ducator Type 250 3.0 Multijet and for this vehicle everything (except power steering) is CAN based.

I presume you have the required A3 adaptor? If not you need to get that adapter.

Failing that then I think the problem lies with your ELM adapter. If I were you I would get a genuine OBDLink SX interface. To my knowledge nobody has ever had any issues with this interface. It also supports firmware updates (if ever required e.g for Pass Through protocal to Fiat/Other servers).

Thanks for your reply.

I checked and rechecked everything. Cannot get a connection to the ECU.
An OBDlink SX unit is out of the question due to the extreme high cost of shipping (just under US100.00, so I have to struggle on. It seems I do not have any problem with the running of the motor. I only wanted to reset the oil degradation. Apparently there was an internal error code, but do not have any details about it. Fiat NZ is very reluctant to give any info at all. The camper is classified as a grey import and therefor a dead horse.
Thank you for your help, much appreciated.
Regards,

Eb W.

 

[rayc]

Thanks for your reply.

I I only wanted to reset the oil degradation.

You could try this. It worked for me when I tried it. The warning had not come on I just wanted to reset the counter which it did to approx 28000 miles

 

[theoneandonly]

you have proved the interface can connect to generic info with the toad scan. If you have an android phone Try the demo version of Alfaobd . you will gain sufficient info to decide it can connect to the ECU. Then you have a way forward ie Buy Alfaobd £31 android or $49 for PC version or try to get MES to work. If it doesnt work you are back to OBD port (van) or Dongle

 

[HughJampton]

Scanning ...

Body / BCM (Body Control Module)
Body Computer Marelli (250FL)
ISO Code: 40 83 6D 8A 8F

Airbag / NAB/ORC (Airbag/Occupant Restraint Module)
TRW Airbag (Ep - PROXI)
ISO Code: EA 07 B9 8A 89

Dashboard / IPC (Instrument Panel Cluster)
Instrument Panel Marelli
ISO Code: 32 83 D3 8A 67

COMPLETED

Interface scan gives the following message:

Please connect the interface to a car!
Scanning ...

ELM 327 1.3/1.4/1.4b/2.1 interface found at port COM3, speed 38400bps
This interface is compatible with ELM 327 1.4! Should connect properly with all CAN modules.

COMPLETED


These are the modules scanning. The other 6 or so modules nothing.

What are the other 6 you are expecting to see?
I can think of at least 2, and possibly a few more depending on the vehicle options.
Engine control, and ABS are the two I would definitely expect to see.
Assuming it's a 2011-on that MES describes the interface differently to the prior version, it may be coincidental that the modules you can see all require the use of the yellow adapter for manipulation. The engine and ABS modules don't.
If you aren't missing any other modules that require the yellow adapter, (Uconnect radio, auto climate control etc. only where fitted, then that may amplify the suspicion that the OBD port, wiring, or connection is/are dodgy.

 

[Eb Wijkstra]

What are the other 6 you are expecting to see?
I can think of at least 2, and possibly a few more depending on the vehicle options.
Engine control, and ABS are the two I would definitely expect to see.
Assuming it's a 2011-on that MES describes the interface differently to the prior version, it may be coincidental that the modules you can see all require the use of the yellow adapter for manipulation. The engine and ABS modules don't.
If you aren't missing any other modules that require the yellow adapter, (Uconnect radio, auto climate control etc. only where fitted, then that may amplify the suspicion that the OBD port, wiring, or connection is/are dodgy.

Hi Hugh,

Thanks for your reply.

The modules it should show, are:
Engine
ABS
Airbag
Electric Steering
Gearbox
Dashboard
Body
Service
Climate Control
Other
as per MES.

What I really wanted to see are the parameters, so I can adjust the oil degradation to a new service.

I have a Ä3"adaptor. Used it with and without the adaptor. The ELM327 is an original from "Total Car Diagnostic"USB Scanner". I also have another scanning program called "Toad Scan". It will scan any vehicle built after 1996. This scanning program too, cannot access the ECU information. I am at witch end.
What I will do next is going to my local garage and connect a professional scanner (Bosch) and see if they can connect to the ECU.

Thanks for your help. Much appreciated.

Regards,

Eb W.

 

[Eb Wijkstra]

you have proved the interface can connect to generic info with the toad scan. If you have an android phone Try the demo version of Alfaobd . you will gain sufficient info to decide it can connect to the ECU. Then you have a way forward ie Buy Alfaobd £31 android or $49 for PC version or try to get MES to work. If it doesnt work you are back to OBD port (van) or Dongle

So far the engine is running like clockwork. I want to know when the next service is due. At the Fiat dealer they were unable to set the next service and I have no idea at how many km it is set.
Because it shows 3 of the 9 modules in MES it does read something, but I cannot get to the parameters to change the next service distance. Although I still have about 15000km to go for the next service.
Thanks for your help. Much appreciated.

Regards,

Eb W.

 

[HughJampton]

I may be being a bit picky, but reading the MES definitions won't necessarily give you a list of what it can see for your vehicle.

It's a list of possibles depending on the vehicle configuration.

Climate control will only be there if it has auto climate control (manual climate control/aircon doesn't have an ECU). Gearbox is only there for comfortmatic. You're unlikely to see electric steering. Service, etc. will be a subset of other ECUs function (probably BCM for yours, though the oil settings are the engine ECU).

On top of the three you can see, you're definitely missing the engine and ABS, but not necessarily anything else unless you have the specific associated configuration.

I'm still suspicious that the only things you can see are those that need the adapter to manage.

 

[Eb Wijkstra]

I may be being a bit picky, but reading the MES definitions won't necessarily give you a list of what it can see for your vehicle.

It's a list of possibles depending on the vehicle configuration.

Climate control will only be there if it has auto climate control (manual climate control/aircon doesn't have an ECU). Gearbox is only there for comfortmatic. You're unlikely to see electric steering. Service, etc. will be a subset of other ECUs function (probably BCM for yours, though the oil settings are the engine ECU).

On top of the three you can see, you're definitely missing the engine and ABS, but not necessarily anything else unless you have the specific associated configuration.

I'm still suspicious that the only things you can see are those that need the adapter to manage.

I understand what you are saying.
I want to be able to adjust the parameters, but for that I have to connect to the ECU. It starts off ok but then I get the following message:
Connection failed. ELM327 -->ECU connection failed. No response.

When I scan for interfaces, it says:
ELM327 v1.3/1.4/1.4b/2.1 interface found at port 3. Speed 38400 bps.
This interface is compatible with ELM 1.4: should connect properly with all CAN modules.

I have used this in the past with no problems and could connect to the ECU without any problems.
By the way I have another 2 interfaces. All doing the same and failing to connect to ECU. Using Toad Scan: same problem no connection to the ECU.

I already got a new ECU control unit about 5 years ago at about I think NZ$ 800.00 or about.
So my next plan of action is going to my local garage and connect a Bosch scanning unit and see what happens.
For not only this problem but other problems I had with official Fiat dealers, I am very reluctant to go there.
I approach Fiat NZ as well, but they don't give any info. Because they say it is a grey important, we treat it as a dead horse. So much for Fiat.

Once again thank you for your help and advice. This is very much appreciated.

Regards,

Eb W