Technical Clutch Pressure Plate Fixing Bolts

[Shuggie]

I'm almost ready, bar a tube of Sachs grease and some fine weather, to have a go at changing the overly heavy clutch on my 09 Panda 1.2 Dynamic. The Haynes manual says that the bolts holding the pressure plate to the flywheel must be replaced with new ones, but while EPER shows the unit price as nearly peanuts, online these bolts seem to be rather expensive. I haven't yet asked the local FIAT dealer for a price.

Can any of our resident experts tell me if it is really necessary to use brand new bolts for the pressure plate? This is not exactly high-end motorsports stuff!

 

[Yolanda]

Personally, if I was doing the job on my own car I'd use the bolts I took off. I've never fitted new ones. However, if new bolts were supplied (which I've never experienced with a clutch kit) I would use them and keep the originals for further use, as I would do with any part supplied with them. But others on here may differ.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Personally, if I was doing the job on my own car I'd use the bolts I took off. I've never fitted new ones. However, if new bolts were supplied (which I've never experienced with a clutch kit) I would use them and keep the originals for further use, as I would do with any part supplied with them. But others on here may differ.

Me too I have never had issues doing this but it is a risk. Probably a small one. Just torque them correctly. Maybe the new bolts have some locking material on the threads. Use locktight.

 

[GettinBetter]

I'm the same, use the old ones, but inspect them first, if they looked chewed up (threads flattened or stretched), replace, else they'll be fine.

 

[koalar]

Nope

Clean and reuse I use a bit of nut lock

What torque is Haynes saying

They should only be 10nm

Fiats instructions don't say replace

 

[Shuggie]

Nope

Clean and reuse I use a bit of nut lock

What torque is Haynes saying

They should only be 10nm

Fiats instructions don't say replace

Haynes manual says 15 Nm or 10 lb/ft with an asterisk emphasising 'do not re-use'! I somehow doubt that any repair workshop uses new bolts. Shame the Ridex clutch kit does not include a set, but AFAIK no kits do.

 

[koalar]

Haynes manual says 15 Nm or 10 lb/ft with an asterisk emphasising 'do not re-use'! I somehow doubt that any repair workshop uses new bolts. Shame the Ridex clutch kit does not include a set, but AFAIK no kits do.

50% too tight

It's not unusual for Haynes to be wrong on torque,

The bolts aren't stressed to say the least

The only reason to replace is to renew the locking compound, just clean and reapply

 

[GettinBetter]

.... with an asterisk emphasising 'do not re-use'!....

Yeah, but I think that's purely a liability issue for them.

 

[Shuggie]

50% too tight

View attachment 435572

It's not unusual for Haynes to be wrong on torque,

The bolts aren't stressed to say the least

The only reason to replace is to renew the locking compound, just clean and reapply

Many thanks - that's clear enough, presumably from the genuine FIAT repair manual!

 

[Shuggie]

@koalar incidentally, what brand/type of locking compound do you recommend for bolts like these?

 

[koalar]

Many thanks - that's clear enough, presumably from the genuine FIAT repair manual!

Yep it's freely viewable online

But a paper copy is nicer

It's one of the easier clutches to do at home

Just lever off the gearbox selector cables don't be tempted to unbolt anything on the gearbox your not supposed to.

Take some photos of the rear dog bone mount, it's easier to put back with the bolt already through. It doesn't make sense untill you do start to undo everything. But one of the bolts does not pass the exhaust. You can leave it in place and the box still slides off. You just have to do the reverse to put it back

LOCTITE 243 is what I use for everything

​

 

[Shuggie]

Yep it's freely viewable online

But a paper copy is nicer

It's one of the easier clutches to do at home

Just lever off the gearbox selector cables don't be tempted to unbolt anything on the gearbox your not supposed to.

Take some phots of the rear dog bone mount, it's easier to put back with the bolt already through. It doesn't make sense untill you do start to undo everything. But one of the bolts does not pass the exhaust. You can leave it in place and the box still slides off. You just have to do the reverse to put it back

LOCTITE 243 is what I use for everything

​

Thanks!

 

[Shuggie]

The new clutch is in, thankfully with some help from a chap called Dave. The new Ridex clutch works beautifully, with a nice light pedal action.

The old AP clutch, most likely original, still had a good amount of friction material left, but the release bearing was quite knackered - very rough and noisy, even though I had not noticed any particular noise when the clutch was operated, just the very heavy pedal. Dave noted the wear marks on the old pressure plate:

Anyway, this is the first time that I've done this, and it's been a good education. I'd be happy to do it again, but preferably with a vehicle lift and a transmission jack!

 

[DaveMcT]

The heavy pedal is a sign the clutch wear is causing the pressure plate spring to move too far. It’s angle gets steeper as the clutch wears so it gradually gets harder to open/release.

 

[Shuggie]

Interestingly, while the new Ridex clutch that I fitted initially had a lovely light pedal action, it's now gone quite heavy, just like it was before the clutch change. The clutch itself works very well, but maybe significantly, it's not necessary to depress the clutch pedal all the way for smooth gear changes etc. It rather feels like full depression of the clutch pushes the pressure plate fingers too far in, and maybe that's why the new clutch has gone heavy. Before the clutch change, I had previously changed the clutch slave cylinder to (successfully) cure the common groaning/squeak noise, bleeding out all old fluid and leaving the old master cylinder and pipework in place, so I'm wondering if that's the reason for over-extension of the clutch operating arm - do the master and slave really need to be matched?

Does any of that make sense? I can live with it for the time being, and doing the clutch again will be much easier with prior experience, should that be necessary.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[jackwhoo]

I would only suggest don't use a no name clutch kit . Go for a big name manufacturer it is a pain to do any job twice due to poor parts....especially a large job like a clutch.

 

[Shuggie]

I've been extremely impressed with Ridex parts, which I think is the House Brand for AutoDoc.

 

[koalar]

Are you sure the clutch release arm pivots aren't dry and seized

I fitted ell cheapo transmech which lasts well

Which turned out is the same a blueprint part, and contains an AP branded friction plate

 

[Shuggie]

The clutch release arm moves very freely, without any play/wobble, so the release fork shaft's vertical bearings are still good. I did wonder if it's worth pulling the operating arm off the top of the release fork shaft, then moving it over by one tooth to limit the maximum clutch operation. The arm is fairly well rusted into place, though, but I'm sure it will come off with plenty of penetrating oil and determination.

 

[koalar]

The clutch release arm moves very freely, without any play/wobble, so the release fork shaft's vertical bearings are still good. I did wonder if it's worth pulling the operating arm off the top of the release fork shaft, then moving it over by one tooth to limit the maximum clutch operation. The arm is fairly well rusted into place, though, but I'm sure it will come off with plenty of penetrating oil and determination.

You can't

One of the spines is double width

It only goes one way