Technical Twin Air misfire after oil change ?

[Tropicalmike]

I have just carried out an oil and filter change on a 64 plate twin air 105 at 35000 miles. We have had the car for 7 months. I have now had a couple of issues with a misfire and engine warning light coming on and the Start-stop unavailable showing . However , the first 3 journeys of about 4-5 miles each after the oil change there was no problem . I managed to clear the engine warning light and clear the start-stop light by stopping and re-starting the engine and it has then run OK after 10 seconds of revving it up.

The engine was fine before the oil change but has always had a little stutter in first few seconds on first starting with a cold engine .

It seemed too much of a coincidence that the problem only started after changing the oil and knowing how important the oil is for the Uniair unit.

I have checked with the Multiecuscan and it has logged the faults as below.

I trawled through other forum threads on this topic area for ideas and can confirm the engine has had and 0-30W oil before and again at this oil change after only 5k miles . I have used Miller oil that I have also used in another twin air and it has been fine. I have also carried out the oil change reset in Multiecuscan . But what I haven't done is check the oil filter for the Uniair unit. Can anyone tell me where it is , or a photo please. I think if it was a spark plug / coil pack issue it wouldn't just disappear on a re-start or when the engine is warmed up. The spark plugs have only done 5k miles. But I will swap over the coil pack plugs and see if I can move the fault .
Anyone got any ideas, constructive suggestions

Thanks in advance

 

[varesecrazy]

Somebody posted an excellent link to an Alfa Forum for the access

It's needs a couple of unusual tools

I will try and find a link

 

[John202020]

Is it not 0w20? Have you cleaned the small filter?

 

[varesecrazy]

Some good points made here:

Twinair valve actuator oil filter | FIAT Panda (2012+)

I wrote this recently regarding the Twinairs valve arrangement. Obviously the system is reliant on engine oil, low engine oil and the valves/solenoids can't lift the valves and I seem to think there is/are "oil strainers" fitted to stop debris suspended in the oil entering unit. The oil...

www.fiatforum.com

 

[varesecrazy]

Is it not 0w20? Have you cleaned the small filter?

5w40. Early motors Euro5
Or
0w30 2015 onwards Euro6

This is a 105, so the above 85bhp figures may not apply

They were asking how to access the small mesh screen fikter

Needs a thin wall 15mm socket I believe ( not done mine yet..)

 

[lunchbeers]

I used a 15mm box wrench, part of an Amtech set from Amazon and even then it was a tight fit...

 

[puntodeltathema]

Had this exact issue a few years ago. Tried replacing coils, plugs even the front O2 sensor but to no avail. Noting that there was an Alfa service bulletin to no longer do the oil reset (reference to which I think I found via an Alfa forum), I concluded the reset had somehow crystalised the issue of a failing UniAir unit. But we moved the car on via a famous car-buying service so can't confirm a solution.

I have serviced many TwinAirs since without doing the oil reset, without issue.

Sorry if that isn't good news - somebody like Small Car Services may have a more expert view (seem to be one of the few professional independent Twinair experts).

 

[lunchbeers]

Daft question, but you have enough oil in there?

I'd expect if you have done shorter journeys then it would have bled though fully by now.

Nothing to say you might'nt have a leak from the filter housing or bung though.

Also your strainer is beneath a plug on the rocker cover just behind and between the ignition coils, remove the plug and there is a well with a 15mm bolt head in it, this is your strainer.

 

[Tropicalmike]

Thanks Guys for all the info and comments

I have now accessed the small oil strainer filter as per attached photo. It was very clean and clean golden oil was visible surrounding the little filter through the cover But i haven't had any more time today to try any thing with the plugs and coil pack swap . The car had 3.2 litres of fresh oil at the oil change and it still shows to the top of the dip stick band .

I have since started the car twice on the drive when it is cold . Both times it ran rough, I revved it to about 2000 rpm but the engine warning light continued to flash so I stopped it . The first time the fault showed was actually before I had reset the oil change .

Anyone know of any independent Fiat garages in the Humberside area ? Small car services in Hampshire looks like they would be good , sadly 250 miles away! Or alternatively , anyone got experience changing out a UniAir unit ?

Thanks

 

[varesecrazy]

Thanks Guys for all the info and comments

I have now accessed the small oil strainer filter as per attached photo. It was very clean and clean golden oil was visible surrounding the little filter through the cover But i haven't had any more time today to try any thing with the plugs and coil pack swap . The car had 3.2 litres of fresh oil at the oil change and it still shows to the top of the dip stick band .

I have since started the car twice on the drive when it is cold . Both times it ran rough, I revved it to about 2000 rpm but the engine warning light continued to flash so I stopped it . The first time the fault showed was actually before I had reset the oil change .

Anyone know of any independent Fiat garages in the Humberside area ? Small car services in Hampshire looks like they would be good , sadly 250 miles away! Or alternatively , anyone got experience changing out a UniAir unit ?

Thanks View attachment 444238

Odd isn't it,

One basic question. Is the oil pressure light going out ok

(just wondering if the new filter is restrictive.. And the Uniair cannot get a workable oil pressure)

 

[steveras57]

Whatever way you look at it swapping out the uni-air module is going to be a very costly repair for a vehicle with only 35k miles on it! so your going to have to keep it a very long time to justify the cost!.

Feel very sorry for owners like yourself!- IMHO the twin air (and duolgic) cars aint worth buying as the reliability records are unimpressive!! ,with many many horror stories keep coming up on these forums -sure an extra 15 bhp and a"sporty" drive might be desirable?, but not at the cost of reliability along with the potential for excessively high repair costs lurking in the wings.
I truly hope you find an enconomicaly viable solution to you problem but would go on record assaying to anyone considering purchasing one of these cars!- DONT!.

 

[puntodeltathema]

Odd isn't it,

One basic question. Is the oil pressure light going out ok

(just wondering if the new filter is restrictive.. And the Uniair cannot get a workable oil pressure)

The (main) oil filter only goes in one way, and you won't get oil pressure if it's in wrong. But presume you know that (and you haven't mentioned an oil pressure warning). A Twinair/Multiair won't run properly with low oil pressure or level (before thinking about all the other issues that could cause!)

 

[varesecrazy]

OP says:
"I crank.. It splutters and I get an Engine MIL"

If it's a Yellow DashWarning

That's probably from the LambdaSensor

Could you get a Code (P****) to confirm/deny this

 

[jackwhoo]

Which brand spark plugs did you fit 5000miles ago? Correct type?

You were going to switch coil packs over and see if misfire moved cylinders. Result?

You asked about misfires coming and going with engine temperature-yes that can happen.

 

[The Panda Nut]

What brand of oil filter did you use. I would redo the filter for starters with another new fpt filter to rule it out. May be you have a coincidental ignition issue. I dont think the Uniair would fail instantly on changing oil. The other thing to consider is replacing the oil with the correct exact oil specified for this engine. Drain the other into a clean tray, rebottle it for top ups. It seems that some engines are more susceptible to uniair issues than others. They are certaily wildly different in performance from my experience with just two.

If it were me, and the oil light is off if it persists I would raise the engine revs well over 4500 and hold it there for two minutes and see what happens. I have seen a post that said to start required 45 seconds of cranking and then some running to settle it.. Draining the oil should not drain the uniair oilways immediately and while I can see, after some wea,r has occurred it may drain after weeks of inactivity the few minutes after an oilchange should not see the Uniair run dry.

I can see that resetting the ECU oil change to match the changed performance of the system with fresh oil would matter. I have taken technical advice from GEM expert re oil and am totally convinced to stick with the correct oil.

The oilways in the unit are tiny and the sensitivity to even minute variations is simple to understand. Any tiny variation in the oil pressure from the required pressure may cause immediate problems. Even a poor batch of the right oil might affect it, I dont suppose Formula 1 engines have anything that is more sensitive to its environment! Both my TAs have been new Panda 4x4s and its notable thatwhen it was put on Castrol edge the stop start restart performance was not as good. It always catches instantly with Petronas oil but turns over twice as long to start on the Castrol. Noticable when it takes too long to restart at traffic lights. I believe Millers and Castrol to be good oils but they will not be the same. There is I think more to the spec than the viscocity.

Uniair failure is more likely to appear as running on one cyclinder or rough running from one valve failing in part to open in tandem as required. This would I feel manifest as bad starting or / and poor power and acceleration as a precursor to failure.

 

[Twotone2]

Don't know if the oil filter in the 500 TA is the same as the one in the Panda 4x4 TA but there's a lug on the filter that goes into the bottom of the filter holder, think if you don't line that up correctly then you don't get oil going to the engine.

 

[lunchbeers]

This is the case with the 4x4

 

[varesecrazy]

This is the case with the 4x4

Filter Lug..?

I suspect all 85 bhp Twinairs are basically identical..

Oil has changed for emissions compliance.. (the original spec Petronas Selenia oil is now an ususual thing to stock) - so you go for an option of :
Wrong formulation, correct grade
Correct formulation, incorrect grade

I've had to go for the Grade rather than the formula..

Running Castrol and Millers,on my twinairs

My newly acquired Alfa has a bottle of "napa" presumably FCA US equivalent?

Our low miles 2013 Panda has Receipts for "Total - Huile deFrance" also..

 

[Danoid]

Hmm I’m sure I watched a YouTube video randomly a while back of someone who done an engine change, fitted the new one but kept getting misfire

I think he removed a fuse or something and it was all good

But can’t remember if the car kept cutting out or something else completely.

I’ll see if I can find it or if someone else knows…

 

[Danoid]

This is it but it was more failing to start but might as well give it a go.

Read the first comment about removing plugs then cranking