I had a crash with a roebuck this Sunday, nobody was hurt - except of the roebuck, dead on the spot.

Headlight, bumper, radiator, hood, fender etc. will be easy bolt-on fixes once I get the parts, but the front plate will be a real challenge. What I mean is the plate that resembles spectacles, it holds the headlights. It seemed at first I would be able to push it out into its original position/shape using a bottle jack from inside the engine bay, but it is pressed in irregularly (the holes for the upper bumper screws are turned up at circa 45° angle) and the only reasonable method of repair seems to be its replacement.

What I am unclear of yet is whether the plate is only tack (spot) welded or whether it is welded around its perimeter where it touches the sides of the front part of the engine bay. I did not start removing the original sealant yet.

Do some of you have an experience with this particular job? I must say I have no experience on welding and I also do not own a MIG welding machine.

Any help is appreciated.

Fiat mode off (hopefully only for limited period of time), Citroen mode on .

Bad luck!
jjhepburn and I pushed out the front panel that you describe. We used a jack and some blocks of wood (I think it was even a trolley jack turned sideways!) A strong point to push against is the engine mounting. I appreciate what you are saying about the difficult distortion, but it may still be possible to direct the force with blocks and wedges to reverse the impact?

When we disposed of a certain white Uno 60 (umm, my parts car ) we removed the front panel by drilling out the spot welds (mostly in the curved flanges behind the headlights) - so no, there is no seam welding. You are probably right in that replacement is the easiest option - but another approach would be to get a panelbeater's to straighten it by using chains and 'dozers' (not sure where that term comes from, hope you can translate... it's a lever-tackle similar to an engine hoist)

For fitting the replacement, you can mimic spot-welds by drilling a hole through one thickness of steel and then squeezing a MIG-torch on high-power through the hole, so as to melt the steel underneath and weld around the edge of the hole. This is assuming that you are borrowing/hiring a MIG welder A simple arc-welder ('stick' welding) may also do the job, since the steel involved is reasonably thick and the welds are not cosmetically-exposed.

I think the decider for me would be whether the chassis rails - the two 'beams' at the sides of the engine bay - were buckled. If so, I'd get the car straightened and then replace the bolt-on parts yourself. Although, I have seen (and driven) a number of Unos where the chassis rails and/or the front crossmember were severely bent (replacement bumper/grille/bonnet etc. to hide the damage) and nobody cared...

-Alex

Thanks for all the good news, AlexGS
The beams seem to be OK - I will be wiser once I remove the bumper relics etc. If it is possible to arc-weld the thing, then I may also be able to convince my brother-in-laws brother to do the welding for me for a six-pack .

It seems that the hunting season in Europe just begun - compared to this Dane who had an encounter with a deer last week, I was really lucky:

alexGS said:

straighten it by using chains and 'dozers' (not sure where that term comes from, hope you can translate... it's a lever-tackle similar to an engine hoist)

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I guess you mean the same tool I know as "comealong" . Yes, there are certain differences when it comes to translating Aussie and Texas versions of English

However, the dark side of my day is that the Citroen mode reports a fatal error (i.e. the bugger will not start. I wonder why I bother to pay insurance for this French parody of engineering. It was offered to be sold for the price of its exhaust piping. I do not want to see it again.).

The bright side is that I have just passed 1,4 Tipo for silly money and agreed a lookover for tomorrow. The body seems OKish... for a 1991 car. AFAIK Tipo is only a bit bigger Uno, aint it?

(Off he goes to spend a night reading a Tipo manual.... )

(CZ)enda said:

I guess you mean the same tool I know as "comealong" . Yes, there are certain differences when it comes to translating Aussie and Texas versions of English

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We understand 'comealong' too I think it's an American term.

However, the dark side of my day is that the Citroen mode reports a fatal error (i.e. the bugger will not start. I wonder why I bother to pay insurance for this French parody of engineering. It was offered to be sold for the price of its exhaust piping. I do not want to see it again.).

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LOL... :worship: You have a fantastic way with words... 'a fatal error' indeed! (As I drove off in my Stilo today, there was a BING - ABS Failure - BING - ASR Failure - BING - ESP Failure - RETURN TO DEALER... like hell I will All these disappeared on the next restart...)

The bright side is that I have just passed 1,4 Tipo for silly money and agreed a lookover for tomorrow. The body seems OKish... for a 1991 car. AFAIK Tipo is only a bit bigger Uno, aint it?

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Good choice for a simple, dependable car that won't rust away.

It is in fact very different to an Uno... body and construction, suspension, trim parts, even brakes totally different. (edit: I see that I've now spent over an hour justifying this statement )

Although engine & gearbox are familiar (the same as Mk2 Uno 70)... the styling is different in every way though you will no doubt find that people confuse it with an Uno!

Driveability problems can be quickly remedied by fixing air leaks - at the small rubber pipes and particularly the rubber carburettor mounting base (which splits). So don't be put off if your test drive proves near-impossible to conduct smoothly Ignition system is very good on 1.6 models (big ECU, crank sensor etc.), not so good on 1.4 models (similar to the Uno with the wretched distributor finned module - carry a spare...)

Gearboxes are much stronger than the Uno and often quite heavy/clunky to shift (my Uno Turbo has one of these Tipo boxes, and I've improved it by flushing and filling with thinner oil).

The Tipo is almost completely galvanised, so rust is not usually a problem (though, I have heard of a rust hole in the roof and the floor). Usual areas like doors, windscreen base etc. are NOT a problem.

The bodyshell is much more rigid - and larger - being a replacement for the Strada/Ritmo-128 rather than the 127 replacement that the Uno is. It feels like a much bigger car to drive, and it does weigh just over 1000kg. Many say that the handling is better than the Uno. I'm not certain... it drives like any other newer car... a 1991 Tipo will feel ten years newer than a 1991 Uno... softer ride, less shakes and fewer rattles definitely... and did I mention, no rust

Be on the lookout for suspension wear problems common to the Uno - that is, lower arm balljoints (steering wobbles/pulls with engine power), worn shock absorbers. Take the price of an Uno part and multiply by 1.7 to get the Tipo part price. Take the time required for the job, and the number of different-sized spanners, and multiply by 2...

Styling is not as 'clean' as the Uno (styled by I.D.E.A, better known for furniture and appliances?), having a rather slab-like and strangely-proportioned shape.

Electrics can be a little hit-and-miss with the Tipo, though I feel that they are better than the Uno... none of these cars has ever given me much grief, but certainly the rear wiper of the Tipo and its central locking are both very common failures (the rear wiper can be taken apart and fixed, but the central locking is best remedied by fitting new lock motors in parallel to the originals). Heater fan resistor has a temp. cutout that fails (not the resistor itself...) and can be bypassed, still giving all four speeds... Simple things like the windscreen washer can prove a surprising challenge (motor that runs in two directions with breakable outlets), and again, remember that parts are relatively expensive compared with the Uno. I also enjoy fixing the digital dashboards (could go on for hours)...

(Off he goes to spend a night reading a Tipo manual.... )

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There are some truly obscure devices, like the vacuum-operated accelerator pump which is cut off when the engine is cold, making acceleration quite the wrong word to use, and the electric intake manifold heater (a short in its haphazard wiring will cause the melting relay to drop out onto your accelerator pedal foot - RHD versions at least). Also, the heater depends on a water valve (like the Uno) and the crude non-bypass design of the thermostat means that on a cold start, all the coolant tries to pass through the heater (which might be closed) - so it's normal for there to be all sorts of strange gurgling noises as the engine revs increase.

I would say, if looking for economical backup transport (with enough room in the back to double-up as a van - large tables and fridges go in no problem), a basic 1.4 Tipo without central locking, electric windows, or digital dash, would be best. I think these all have manual steering. They are a little noisier than the more deluxe 1.6 models, and obviously not quite as luxurious (Tipo power steering is a big improvement over the manual system, and the more upmarket interiors are a lot more plush, thicker seats, proper carpet, more soundproofing, etc.) However, the 1.4 is not really any slower than the 1.6 (due to the extra weight of all those luxuries) and there will definitely be less to go wrong. If, like for me, the thought of things going wrong is only a minor challenge, then go for the 1.6 - a much nicer car to ride in for the same money now as a 1.4

I sold my Tipo (1989 1.6 DGT) in 2001 because it was too boring (there was nothing that needed fixing), too expensive, and not fast enough (good handling or not, I found it more sluggish than my Uno 60 (0-100km/h in 18 seconds) and couldn't quite get to 160km/h...) I replaced it with a FIAT Croma 2.0 i.e. - a lot more interesting... and then with a Lancia Thema V6 that was just the ultimate

I've since worked on four different Tipos. More recently I owned a basic 1990 1.4 Tipo for a few months (selling on behalf of a friend). It had normal dials that could be read even in sunlight - I missed the exciting green LCDs of the DGT. It still seemed slow, but no slower than the previously-mentioned 1.6 - felt pretty utilitarian with the van-like non-power steering, but a bit faster and better all round than a basic Uno 45. (I hope Chas hasn't read this far!)

-Alex

alexGS said:

It still seemed slow, but no slower than the previously-mentioned 1.6 - felt pretty utilitarian with the van-like non-power steering, but a bit faster and better all round than a basic Uno 45. (I hope Chas hasn't read this far!)

-Alex

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Chas has indeed read this far

Uno's are a bit utilitarian compared with a Tipo, but that's their appeal! A Uno FEELS faster than it actually is, certainly the mk1. I just got back from London and was hammering it along the M1 motorway at between 80 - 90mph. I know the speedo is optimistic but not many cars passed me

It's also one of the reasons that I find modern cars a bit dull to drive. You feel removed from the whole experience, little noise or feedback on what the car, suspension and engine is actually doing. My old Uno makes sure I know EVERYTHING that is going on, including all the creaks and rattles that go with a 20 year old car

I am wondering if I'm going to like my Punto 75SX when I finally get it sorted out and back on the road. Will it be too efficient/ quiet/ comfortable? Will it have the rawness even a basic Uno 45 has? Only time will tell, and I am NOT getting rid of my Uno whatever happens...

The basic Tipo is an excellent car, but for ultimate enjoyment a Sedicivalvole is the one to go for. However, I doubt if the one (CZ)enda is going to see is this model, though there are a few that have gone for little money over here in the UK.

I'll be interested to hear how driving a Tipo compares with a Uno!

P.S. Alex, my Uno is NOT a basic 45! It's an 'S', with extras from SX and turbo models

1986Uno45S said:

P.S. Alex, my Uno is NOT a basic 45! It's an 'S', with extras from SX and turbo models

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Exactly
I just knew you'd point that out...!

Well, (CZ)enda has been quiet - perhaps he's busy working on his Tipo?!

-Alex

alexGS said:

Exactly
I just knew you'd point that out...!

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alexGS said:

Well, (CZ)enda has been quiet - perhaps he's busy working on his Tipo?!

-Alex

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Hmmm, we need to know! Enda, did you get the Tipo? Let us known and put us out of our misery!

Chas

Whoa-ho!
The Tipo has been bought !
It was one of the stories which happen only in the fairy tales or the second-hand car sellers summaries !
The car was imported to CZ from D at its 90 000 km. A written report from a custom office provides the first name of its only previous German owner. It is Kerstin XXXXXXX, which is a female name.
The car had been imported by some filthy SH car dealer in 2001 and after being registered in CZ (which, at the time, was somewhat laborious process), it was sold to a lady living in a town some 40 kms from where I live. The lady is in the phone book and I was able to confirm she was the person driving the car.
BTW, she is a pediatrist and a very friendly person.
The car was then sold to a young mother-to-be who lives some 100 m from me. She is a nurse and bought it from her boss (the pediatrist mentioned above) at 2003.
She drove it only for the time period before she met her boyfriend/future husband, who drives the company-purchased-paid brand new Renault with the permission to be used for their personal purposes as well...

The odometer of the Tipo says 121,000 km now... and the figures are aligned well!

During the last years, the things the previous owner paid for (bills attached to the purchase agreement) were clutch, front brake discs and pads. These are, indeed, new to the point that they screech !

They decided to get rid of the car to avoid further insurance company bills and put an A4 announcement under the rear glass.
I noticed that announcement while driving my trusty, immortal, adorable Uno 45 back from a supermarket, roof-full of groceries, casting a curious eye all around for a cop to hassle me about the bumper of the car, as it is still smashed-in by the above mentioned roebuck.

The result is that:
a) I have 1992 1.4 Tipo with a full service history.
b) It has some rusty spots, but who cares - I bought it for the price of a MW oven.
c) My wife fell in love with the car instantly.
d) The Citroen CX mode reports fatal error.

I will keep my Uno 45S and give it a proper repair as it is much thriftier in the town traffic, but I admit I like the Tipo as well. Compared to Uno, it seems somewhat "wavy" (if this makes sense - unstable while turning), but it provides much more space inside for transport of inflatable toys and Teddy bears :devil: :devil: :devil: .

Honestly, if I had more time to do the proper planning, I would probably be driving Multipla (Mk1 - I do not like the Mk2 at all, too sober and German-like) now. As I had to make a decision on the spot, I chose Tipo.

Looking into Tipo s spacious engine bay, remembering all those filthy words I used while referring to the CX layout, I think I did the right choice.

I know what Sedicivalvole is, but... if I was to buy a car for fun, not for a normal traffic, then it would not be Uno or Tipo. It would be 124 Spyder, Dino or AR Giulietta, 2000 Spider... well, Fiat 500 or 600 would not be bad to learn the basic tricks of the restoration trade
Not CX...

Good stuff!

Rusty spots - on a Tipo?

'wavy' - check those front control arm balljoints (any knocking?) - otherwise I know what you mean, it lunges around... and the steering's rather low-geared if it's non-power-assisted. Pump up the front tyres to 34psi...

The Tipo engine bay is indeed a dream... though be careful of the haphazard wires to the carburettor - they're flimsy - and grease the clutch cable linkage carefully. There's a bellcrank to turn the cable 90-degrees behind the engine. There are some plastic parts in there under the triangular plastic cover, so it's important to lubricate it carefully with silicone grease so that nothing snaps unexpectedly.

It might be wise to change the cambelt unless you have evidence of it done around 80,000km... You need a 36mm socket and a long bar/impact gun, since the aux. belt pulley has to come off to get the cambelt out/in, the crankshaft oil seal carrier has been designed to shield the cambelt.

I think you'll find that it's nearly as thrifty as the Uno... particularly if any longer distances are involved.

I found that a spray-can of white lithium grease comes in very useful with the Tipo - for the gearchange linkages, particularly the piece on the transmission under the round rubber cover, and for things like the door hinges, the wiper linkages, and various other parts that seem to seize up.

Have fun!
-Alex

Just to report the progress:
The beams are, indeed, OK. Uno has been stripped off, the front "spectacle" piece found useless/not worth the hassle of straightening, and bought new (aftermarket, of course).

As the person expected to do the welding is busy over the weekend, I bought a brand-new 4-mm drill and a sufficient supply of aluminium blind rivets

The hood may be worth repairing - I will try straightening it tomorrow using carpenter s clamps, some blocks of wood and a steel I-beam. If it does not work, I have a spare one agreed for Monday at the breakers.

For some unknown reason, my preferred supplier of the aftermarker parts is unable to deliver Mk1 bumper with the holes for the foglamps for reasonable price (the catalogue price suggested is about 15x higher than that for the bumper without the holes ). I ordered the hole-less one, which came chipped from the warehouse. The guys apologized politely and the part will be re-delivered Monday morning.

I have a spare bumper with the holes somewhere, but it is cracked. I wonder if there is a method of repairing the plastic? I think the bumper is made of PP, and I have no idea what primer/filler is to be used for this kind of plastic.

Tomorrow is the big-grinder-day. Fingers crossed, Uno is back on the road Monday evening latest.

Off topic - and possibly for a PM, but:
AlexGS, do you visit the Tipo part of the FF forum as well? I feel that, sooner or later, I would be grateful for your input...