General Side light problems need help asap

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General Side light problems need help asap

Rob-mint-mk1-uno

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Hello...
Got a mark 1 uno turbo 1989..
Got a major problem with my side lights, when i turn the side lights on the dip beam comes on aswell?
If i turn the lights onto dip beam they stay the same, and if i turn main beam on then that works fine aswell. So i guess the only problem i have with my lights is the fact i have no front side lights.
Its strange because you can see the little bulbs lit but the dipped beam comes on aswell.
Normaly one click of the switch brings on the side side lights
Next click brings on dipped beam
and the one above brings on main beam.
So why when i turn my side lights does the dipped beam come on aswell....:bang:
You gotta help me lads mot in 3 day's :worship: :eek: :eek:
 
Unless you have some UK-specific circuitry, the light switch on the Mk1 has only 2 positions - "switched off" and "switched on". The second position lights up the little bulbs in the headlamps and the low or high beam thread in the H4 main bulbs. High/low beam is selected by the "paddle" switch located above the main switch, again, this has only two position.
The "parking light" mode, when H4s are switched off and only the little bulbs are shining, is selected by pushing the tiny switch located on the ignition key barrel before removing the ignition key.
 
Na mate theres a off position and a side light position and then a dipped beam switch.
The paddle switch above is for going to main beam from dipped... The only fault i have is the dipped beam comes on with the side lights. :mad:
 
Later mk1's were fitted with a 'dim/ dip' resistor that I think was meant to stop you driving with sidelights on? :confused: I seem to remember getting something similar when I swapped the under dash wiring on my '86 Uno for that of an '88 Uno. There was an extra (yellow?) wire to one of the light switches, and the headlights didn't work as they should. I'll try and dig out the post with what happend.

I switched the looms over so I'd have the wiring for the fogs that the SX had but my 45S didn't. In the end I used the original 45S loom and adapted the fog light wiring loom (had to painstakingly remove it from the SX loom) to fit as Fiat would have intended.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that it could be you have a fault with the dim/ dip resistor circuit. The dim/ dip module is at the front of the drivers side engine bay on the inner wing. It's a rectangular metal box (small) with what looks like a spring inside it.

And Rob is right. First position on the light switch should switch on the sidelights, and the second should switch on the headlights. The big switch above switches from main to dim beam. CZEnda is also right in that the sidelights will come on if you use the little switch on the ignition switch and turn the key the other way. This is only used so that the sidelights can be left on and the key removed from the ignition when parking in an awkward place.

Hope this helps!

EDIT:

Here's a post I made about fitting a later loom into my Uno that was meant to work with the dim/ dip relay and resistor whereas my Uno never had it fitted. I'm not sure if this is the same problem you have with yours Rob? The system uses a relay as well as a resistor, so possibly you have a faulty relay?

Have a look and see if it's of any help:

https://www.fiatforum.com/uno-technical/35761-mk1-dashboard-removal.html?highlight=uno+dashboard

EDIT 2:

Just thought, isn't that what the dim/ dip resistor is supposed to do after all? Could you use your sidelights on their own previously, or have you only just noticed this? I've got a feeling the later mk1's are meant to work this way, and CZEnda may be right after all though I thought all UK Unos had a three position light switch - off, sidelights and on?
 
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No mate i have off,sidelights,and dipped beam then the one above is main beam.
I used to have another turbo and i used to drive around with my side lights on then when it got dark ill flip the switch another notch and ill have dip beam on...
All uk cars should have side lights and a seperate dipped beam to pass the mot, but when i go to put my side lights on (first click of the switch) the dipped beam comes on aswell,then when u go to dip it stays the same so my dip and side lights are all on when only the side lights are sposed to be on.

Am i making sense... god i need help with this i dont know where to start looking....:idea: :confused:
 
The dipped beam some how is getting a feed from the side lamps, when the dipped should only come on when they are turned on...
Ill read the owners hand book and just dobule check... but i know im right.(y)
 
My silly mistake - the main switch has, indeed, three positions :eek:
As it is mandatory to have the lights on all the time where I live, I switched them on about a year ago and completely forgot about them...
 
i had the same problem with my uno cause of 100w bulbs i had in. what is the wattage of the head light bulbs? the problem is the light switch if you open it up there is three diffrent elements in it and it melts gaps in the three wheels on it. hope this is of some use for you.
 
OK, Rob... as Chas was saying, I don't think you actually have any problem at all. You've described correct operation of the dim-dip system.

The handbook probably won't say anything helpful on this since it was applied to UK-spec cars only after 1986, and the handbook revision year tends to vary.

Do a test of the sidelights (parking lights) by themselves - with the key 'off', press the little button and turn the key backwards. The sidelights, tail lights, number plate light, and instrument panel lights should come on - no dipped beam, obviously (this 'parking lights' requirement may be part of the MOT, so make sure they know how to switch them on).

The 'sidelights' position on the headlight switch will result in dimmed dipped beam lights, while the 'headlights' position will result in dipped beam (and high beam, depending on the dip-switch paddle).

With this in perfect working order, I failed a roadworthiness test because my dipped beam was 'too dim'. The testers thought that the light switch was the dip-switch! They were testing dipped-beam with the light switch on 'sidelights' and testing main beam with the light switch on 'headlights'.

There is unlikely to be any problem with your MOT since the testers will be expecting this behaviour on any car built from 1986 to about 1996 when the requirement was rescinded.

But do make sure that the sidelights (little bulbs) are working, because it can be difficult to spot when they are blown (since the dipped-beam is usually glowing).

One other thing. If you fit relays to the headlight wiring, there can be problems since the relays will be turned 'on' even by the dimmed-dip current. Hence the lights will come on at full brightness when they should be dimmed. The solution to this is to unplug the dim-dip resistor, which looks like a wire coil in a perforated box, probably mounted somewhere near the battery (but not on the radiator: that one's for the Uno Turbo's two-speed radiator fan).


So, nothing to worry about then :)
-Alex
 
Hello mate

Well according to the book i should have side lights on first click, dipped beam on second click and the one above is main beam.
But like i say i go first click and the side lights are on as well as the dipped beam??? if you look real close u can see the side lamps lit up..
I mean u might be right but most cars have side lights and then a dipped beam seporate...
Ill try dissconnect that resistor and see what happens...
Right i just popped out and turned the ignition switch off using that button and the rear tail lights are on and the number plate on aswell but the front.. well i have the little side lights on but the dipped beam is on again with it...
This cant be right,with that button pushed in and the key pulled back i should only have tail lights and side lights on the front, but like i say i have dipped beam on aswell. if thats the park posistion then id have a flat battery in 10 minz.. lol god help me some one :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:
 
Sorted... this is from the haynes manual chapter 13.106

On later models, the wiring cicuit has been modified to prevent the car being driven on parking lamps.
Head lamp intensity is reduced by the transformer located at the front of the engine compartment.
Any attempt to start the car with parking lamps on will automatically cause the headlamps to switch on with a low intensity dipped beam, dipped and main beam function normally.
THE HEADLAMP DIM DIP SYSTEM IS A LEGAL REQUIREMANT FOR ALL UK MODELS REGISTERED AFTER APRIL 1st 1987..

So the promblem i have is my resistor must be nackered because the side lights are just a bright as dipped beam so if i put a new resistor in there i should get alot dimmer version of dipped beam right ???
What do you think alex, seams you was right.. that haynes book is like a bible :worship: lol......
 
Rob-mint-mk1-uno said:
Sorted... this is from the haynes manual chapter 13.106

On later models, the wiring cicuit has been modified to prevent the car being driven on parking lamps.
Head lamp intensity is reduced by the transformer located at the front of the engine compartment.
Any attempt to start the car with parking lamps on will automatically cause the headlamps to switch on with a low intensity dipped beam, dipped and main beam function normally.
THE HEADLAMP DIM DIP SYSTEM IS A LEGAL REQUIREMANT FOR ALL UK MODELS REGISTERED AFTER APRIL 1st 1987..


So the promblem i have is my resistor must be nackered because the side lights are just a bright as dipped beam so if i put a new resistor in there i should get alot dimmer version of dipped beam right ???
What do you think alex, seams you was right.. that haynes book is like a bible :worship: lol......

1986Uno45S said:
EDIT 2:

Just thought, isn't that what the dim/ dip resistor is supposed to do after all? Could you use your sidelights on their own previously, or have you only just noticed this? I've got a feeling the later mk1's are meant to work this way, and CZEnda may be right after all though I thought all UK Unos had a three position light switch - off, sidelights and on?

:rolleyes:

Told you so! :p

Having never encountered the dim/ dip resistor system (all my Uno's have been pre '87) I can't say for sure just how much the lights are supposed to dim. I suspect the difference is negligable, so it could well be that your lighting system is working fine.

The only way to find out is to swap the resistor under the bonnet for a new one, and also check the relay under the fusebox. Other than that, I wouldn't worry about it...

Jai has a 1989 turbo, so maybe he can confirm just how the lights are supposed to appear (i.e. whether there is a noticeable difference between 'side' and 'headlight' settings).

Also, I remember now when I fitted a later loom into my '86 Uno, sidelights gave me full beam and the full beam blue light came on the dashboard warning panel. In the end I swapped back to my original loom without the dim/ dip circuit and spliced in the extra wires for the fog lights and electric windows. That way everything worked as it should!

I can confirm that the earlier light system worked as the more traditional set up. Side lights illuminated the small parking light bulbs in the headlamps, main beam was as normal (plus parking lights on) and full beam was full beam. All operated by the three position light switch and the ignition switch 'park' setting for parking lights without the key in the ignition.

Keep up the good work on the turbo, I'm getting jealous of how well the paint is coming up! :eek:
 
Yes, I think we're all agreed that the dim-dip system is present, and you should be finding that the 'dimmed' dip beam is about half the brightness of normal dipped beam. When you move the headlight switch from 'sidelights' to 'headlights' (with the ignition key on) there should be a noticeable doubling in brightness. If there isn't, your normal dipped-beam lights may be suffering from poor connections - clean and tighten plugs and earths (more on that in a moment).

OK - but you should still be able to turn on the parking lights with the button and the key (turning backwards) without the dipped-beam lights coming on. There should be just the small 5W bulb glowing in each headlight.

If you are still getting dipped beam lights with the key turned backwards for parking lights, then I think you have an earthing problem. Unplug, clean, and tighten (with pliers etc.) the spade terminals earth connections under the front of the battery. There are a number of terminals, all connected to a short 'bar' of terminal 'blades', bolted to the chassis. I'm struggling for terms here; 'bus-bar' springs to mind, hope you can tell what I mean. There is another on the opposite side of the car, near the RH headlight. It is quite possible that both connections are weak, causing the parking lights to earth back through the headlight bulbs (unlikely, but the only explanation I can think of for the symptom of dipped-beam even with key off).

Check and tighten connections to the headlight bulb plug also, while you're there.

It would be unusual for the dim-dip resistor to fail, but it is possible that someone has plugged it in wrongly.

OK I've gone out with my camera and checked for you :)

Attached pics show (left to right, top to bottom):
- parking light only
- dimmed dipped-beam (note: does not look much different to parking light only, but this may be due to my camera re-adjusting to the change in light)
- normal dipped-beam
- location of dim-dip resistor on Mk1 Turbo (on radiator, engine-cambelt end)
- closeup of dim-dip resistor hopefully showing wiring (very little space to get a camera in there) - I see it has coloured dots which correspond to the wire colours, if your wiring loom was made on a Tuesday, a Wednesday, or a Thursday - and provided there wasn't a y in the month.

Good luck!
-Alex
 

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...and one more pic: 'bus-bar' earth connections (with eight spade terminals attached) near battery.

It would be easy to confuse parking lights with dimmed-dipped headlights, as I think my previous pictures showed.

So what I suggest you do is to remove the small parking light bulbs (twist and pull from back of headlight) and again press the little button and turn the key backwards, to verify that the dipped-beam headlights should not be coming on with the key in the parking-lights position.

And if they are indeed NOT coming on, then everything is working correctly as you've described it. :)

Otherwise check earths (cleaning the earths and tightening the headlight plugs will probably make your normal dipped-beam lights brighter), check resistor connections (note that Haynes incorrectly calls it a 'transformer': transformers only work with AC, not DC)

Thanks,
-Alex
 

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alexGS said:
Unplug, clean, and tighten (with pliers etc.) the spade terminals earth connections under the front of the battery. There are a number of terminals, all connected to a short 'bar' of terminal 'blades', bolted to the chassis. I'm struggling for terms here; 'bus-bar' springs to mind, hope you can tell what I mean.

These are multi terminal connections are often known as 'hedgehogs', because they kind of look like an, erm, hedgehog! I also think they look like a silicon chip upside down ;)
 
Wow thanks alex, mine deffo brighter than your dim dip for sure...
Im going work now so ill check the wiring when i get home so far all i hve checked is the switch, so ill check the resistor and the bar bus and see what happens...Ill reply later tonight when ive had a look...
thanks again mate top bloke :D
 
ive had a quick look and i can see the resistor.... but 2 of my wires ave been taken off and they are joined together by a piece of red wire ??:cry:
Im going out there later so ill take off the wire and join them back on to the resistor and see what happens... failing that ill buy a new one that should cure it.
Ill let u know what happens later.... (y)
 
At last all sorted..

Rite for some reason the resistor was dissconnected well 2 wires were off and just one was on (red/middle) and the two wire they took off were joined together, towards the left hand side of the front panel there was a relay that some one had put in and when i used the side lights i could hear it click bringing on the dipped beam.
So i took out that link of cable and put the wires back onto the resistor, i removed the power to the relay that some random bone head put there and hey presto.
I have side lights with dim dip, then next click is dipped beam i have this and main beam works ok. I checked the front fogs and they both work and also i can push that switch in on the ignition switch now and i have park lights.

The thing is that relay was tapped into the little 5 watt bulbs for a switch feed, and when it got power by switching on the side lights the relay would click and bring on dipped beam, so i think maybe some one thought it had a fault and bodged a relay in there when really it was the correct dim dip system. Who knows but its all sorted now, i gonna tidy up the loom by re taping the wires back neat and clean all the earths mine look a little green but EVERY THING WORKS. wooooohoooooooo :D :D :D :D
 
hey rob :

Check if u have a 100/130 or bigger(on wattage) headlamp bulb....standard wiring system is designed to accomodate upto 65W H/Lamps, so that might be the reason someone put that relay in there...Without relay, ur wiring may overheat, and u will shortly see some faulty switch/ burnt bulb holder/wiring kit........

I am using 200/160 W bulbs and have a relay to control the bulbs, as the standard wiring system cannot handle that much load..

Pls let us know about this..:slayer:

Well your paint looks nice and better now...what are u using on them ??How much did they cost >>?:confused:
 
Likewise, it sounds to me as though someone had wired in a relay with good intentions. Unfortunately, bypassing the dim-dip resistor and taking the relay coil power from the sidelight circuit was not the way to go!

I'm pleased you got to the bottom of it and everything's OK - but do check those headlight bulbs (should be 55/60W in standard form).

If you do want to fit a relay to the dipped-beam circuit, the way to do it is of course to have the relay coil powered from the dipped-beam wire. The supply to the relay contacts comes from 12V somewhere convenient: perhaps the starter motor main terminal via a fuse. THEN you would actually disconnect the dim-dip resistor completely, since it would have no useful function. This would allow you to use the parking lights correctly without the relay turning on.

Cheers,
-Alex
 
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