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Old 03-09-2005   #1
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Fitting turbo anti roll bar to 45S

At last, I finally managed to fit the turbo anti-roll bar to my little 45S. I bought the roll bar and the brackets way back in May from a guy stripping a dead turbo. What I didn't realise was that I needed the suspension arm brackets AS WELL AS the roll bar brackets.

Luckily Fro$ty pointed me to the MSN turbocollective group, where I managed to find some from another turbo being broken down in London.

Anyway, as the original bits were all rather rusty I decided to clean them up and paint them. One to make them look good and two, to stop them from rusting again. They were painted blue as I had a tin of blue Smoothrite lying around that I hadn't used for anything. Seemed a shame to waste it!

However, it was a bit futile as I ended up scratching a lot of it when fitting the parts due to lack of clearance

The first series of pictures show the parts being cleaned to bare metal using a drill and wire brush, then being painted in anti-rust primer. Plus you can see the roll bar in it's rather bright blue new paintwork!

I'll post some more pics in subsequent posts showing the progress.
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Old 03-09-2005   #2
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Re: Fitting turbo anti roll bar to 45S

The next set of pictures shows the two 'L' shaped brackets that are needed to fit the anti-roll bar to non turbo models. These locate one end of the front suspension arms as well as the anti-roll bar itself.

These were cleaned up and painted like the other bits, bright blue again As I ended up with extra brackets from having to get the 'L' brackets from another broken turbo, I painted all of them as well so I would have some spares.

Oh, and the red brackets you can see in one pictures are the hatchback brackets. Thought I might as well paint those also in my bid to prevent my Uno from going rusty!

So now I had lots of nice shiny brackets and roll bar to fit.
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Old 03-09-2005   #3
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Re: Fitting turbo anti roll bar to 45S

And now I had all the bits ready for fitting. All laid out neatly, with some stainless steel bolts and nuts. But bear in mind I used the original steel bolts for the main suspension arm bolts as stainless steel should NOT be used for load bearing parts. This is because stainless is more fragile than mild steel and has a habit of fracturing.

As the anti-roll bar is not under the same kind of pressure as a suspension arm, I used stainless fasteners that won't go rusty.

Fitting was to be honest, a pain! I though it would be easy after pulling off a roll bar from one of the scrapped turbos, but then again I forgot that it didn't have an exhaust or gearbox fitted...

So I had to disconnect the gearchange linkages at the gearbox to drop them down and give enough clearance for the roll bar to pass over them and the exhaust. Of course, in the process of doing so I managed to scratch my nice blue paintwork Then again, it's not exactly going to be seen by anyone other than hedghogs or MOT testers!

I fitted the inner brackets first, which might have been the wrong way of doing it. One of the 10mm nuts that holds on the suspension arm brackets came off nice and easily, but that was probably because I changed the arm to replace it a couple of years ago. The other just spun round and refused to budge. They aren't really load bearing, but you can't get the suspension arm bracket off without removing them first. After cussing and cursing and throwing spanners around all I succeeded in doing was snapping the bolt with nut clean off. I hope it's true that they aren't needed...

So now I had to fit the turbo suspension brackets into place, then bolt up the anti-roll bar brackets and bushes. Trying to push the brackets into place against the rubber bushes didn't give enough clearance to fit the bolts. I had to scratch my new paint by using a trolley jack to push the brackets up enough to fit the bolts. But at least I got them back into place.

Once I'd done the two inner brackets I had to fit the two outer brackets that fit onto the suspension arms. These were also a pain, as the suspension arm has to be raised with a trolley jack, then the roll bar end has to be pushed down so that the brackets locate into the two holes in the suspension arm. Really a two man job, but with lots of swearing I managed to do it on my own.

Also, it helps to fit the outer brackets to the roll bar BEFORE fitting the roll bar to the car! They can be fitted in situ, but it is f**king difficult!

Once everything was bolted up, the car was lowered back onto the ground. Now I had to crawl underneath again and tighten the bolts with a torque wrench to the correct settings. The manual states that four people need to be in the car or something like that before the bolts are tightened, but as I didn't have four people to hand and I rarely carry four people I had to ignore this instruction...

So after all this grief, how does it affect the suspension of my 45S?

Well, I took it for a test drive, and by the time I came back I wondered why Fiat didn't fit ALL Unos with a front anti-roll bar. What it doesn't do is make the ride hard, in fact it hardly changes at all. What it does do is make the car sit much, much more flat when cornering.

Originally my Uno rolled all over the place with enthusiastic cornering, but now it hardly seemed to roll at all! I seemed to have the best of both worlds, compliant suspension AND flat handling.

What it has shown up is the original skinny 135 tyres. Now it corners so much flatter I push it harder, and the 135's are struggling to cope. Time to refurbish those X1/9 alloys with 165 section tyres fitted

If anyone is wanting to improve the handling of their non Turbo Uno, then I strongly recommend fitting a turbo anti-roll bar. It makes a big difference, and probably is more effective than fitting harder springs. You get to keep the original ride comfort, and make the cornering much flatter. Mine hardly seems to roll at all now.

One last thing, you'll probably have to get a lot of the brackets off a stripped turbo, as according to my local Fiat dealer they are no longer available new...

To sum up, I heartily recommend fitting an anti roll bar to any non turbo Uno!
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Last edited by Chas Uno; 03-09-2005 at 21:30.
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Old 03-09-2005   #4
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Re: Fitting turbo anti roll bar to 45S

Job well done Chas

Excellent thread as usual
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Old 03-09-2005   #5
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Re: Fitting turbo anti roll bar to 45S

Cheers Louie!

Did you take the anti-roll bar off Bianca to fit onto your mk2 before you sold her?

Chas
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Old 03-09-2005   #6
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Re: Fitting turbo anti roll bar to 45S

Your thread reminded me that was one thing I forgot to do
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Old 04-09-2005   #7
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Re: Fitting turbo anti roll bar to 45S

oooooooo he's good isn't he...now can i persuade him to polish my car for gaydon with his hi speed buffer.....
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Old 04-09-2005   #8
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Re: Fitting turbo anti roll bar to 45S

Quote Originally Posted by turboned
oooooooo he's good isn't he...now can i persuade him to polish my car for gaydon with his hi speed buffer.....
No! Because I had to give the high speed buffer back to my mate after I finished working on his Honda Prelude

Besides, I thought you had a gang of Kosovos working on your car!
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Old 04-09-2005   #9
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Re: Fitting turbo anti roll bar to 45S

Chas.

I knew this was a painful job. But the result was pretty impressive I suppose. I'm very happy I used a couple of hours on it. Anyway, I wasn't troubled with the gearbox linkages, as I've got the c513 gearbox with concealed linkages...

But - well done.

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Old 05-09-2005   #10
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Re: Fitting turbo anti roll bar to 45S

Well done Chas - excellent thread!

You probably know this already, but FIAT did eventually come around to the idea of fitting the anti-roll bar (or 'baruar' as it says in the handbook) to non-turbo models - the 1372cc SX i.e. pictured in the Haynes manual has the anti-roll bar.

Now I just wonder what options there are for those of us with a Turbo who would like the anti-roll bar to be more effective! I'm hoping that lowered suspension will still reduce the body roll - and maybe I just need some new antiroll bar bushes.

The mounting of antiroll bars in general for '80s cars seems very haphazard compared with the good old FIAT 128, which had the bar passing right through the control arms, and the pivot brackets mounted very sturdily on the car's structure. I see that many cars these days have vague-looking drop links to the ends of the bar - and the Uno has those end brackets operating at a very odd angle on the control arms IMHO... did you find that the rubber bushes at the ends of the bar were all torn-out?

-Alex
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Old 05-09-2005   #11
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Re: Fitting turbo anti roll bar to 45S

Quote Originally Posted by alexGS
did you find that the rubber bushes at the ends of the bar were all torn-out?
These must wear out very fast right? Mine are totally ruined. But does it actually matter much?

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Old 06-09-2005   #12
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Re: Fitting turbo anti roll bar to 45S

Quote Originally Posted by Morty Mort
Chas.

I knew this was a painful job. But the result was pretty impressive I suppose. I'm very happy I used a couple of hours on it. Anyway, I wasn't troubled with the gearbox linkages, as I've got the c513 gearbox with concealed linkages...

But - well done.

Morten.
Cheers Morten! And it's good to see you back on the Forum again.

I am very, very pleased at fitting the anti-roll bar to my Uno. It really has changed the feel of it in a positive way. The original handling was quite good if a little 'roly poly', but since fitting the roll bar it feels more like a go-cart. I've been attacking roundabouts with enthusiasm, and twisty country roads are much more fun. My Uno sits so much more flat now, and it feels much 'tighter'. I probably need to upgrade the dampers at the front and back to really get the benefit out of it though.

Only problem is, as mentioned above, the 135 front tyres can't cope with the increased cornering speed. Luckily I have a set of steels I just bought with 155 section tyres that will go on for the MOT, and WHEN I get round to it I have a nice set of 165's on X1/9 alloys to go on once I've refurbished them.

Been meaning to refurbish them for ages, but time has not been on my side and is even less so as I've just started full time college today...

But what the hell, in one stroke I've just made driving my Uno even more fun
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Old 06-09-2005   #13
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Re: Fitting turbo anti roll bar to 45S

Quote Originally Posted by alexGS
Well done Chas - excellent thread!

You probably know this already, but FIAT did eventually come around to the idea of fitting the anti-roll bar (or 'baruar' as it says in the handbook) to non-turbo models - the 1372cc SX i.e. pictured in the Haynes manual has the anti-roll bar.
Cheers Alex!

Yes, on the Mk2 the SX and the diesel had anti-roll bars fitted (I was looking in scrap yards to see if I could find one, but they are even rarer than turbos). All the other Mk2's didn't have one fitted.

The mk1 SX DOESN'T have a roll bar, I was hoping to get lucky when me and Turboned broke up one a few months back, but a quick check showed that it didn't I'm not sure about the mk1 diesel, but as far as I know the only mk1 fitted with a roll bar was the turbo.

Also, I think fitting a roll bar to a FIRE engined Uno is quite a hike in uprating, because the roll bar was designed for the much heavier front end on the turbo, SX and diesel. The FIRE is much lighter, so the increase in effectiveness is greater. I still don't know why Fiat didn't fit ALL Uno's with one though.

Quote Originally Posted by alexGS
Now I just wonder what options there are for those of us with a Turbo who would like the anti-roll bar to be more effective! I'm hoping that lowered suspension will still reduce the body roll - and maybe I just need some new antiroll bar bushes.
On some cars, a thicker anti-roll bar could be had to further stiffen up the suspension under cornering. As far as I know there isn't one available for the Uno though, unless some of the rally specialists have them?

If a thicker roll bar can't be found, then stiffer springs will be the only other option. You don't necessarily need to lower the car if you fit stiffer springs, as the increased stiffness will reduce suspension travel even if you keep the same ride height.

The problem with lowering is that the springs will have to be much more stiff to compensate for the lack of suspension travel. Quite often they end up too stiff for a car as light as the Uno. They're fine on smooth roads, but on rubbish bumpy British roads the ride will be too harsh, your fillings will fall out and the suspension won't work as effectively because the springs will bounce the car around rather than keep the wheels stuck on the road.

Uprated dampers might be a more logical and effective route?

Quote Originally Posted by alexGS
The mounting of antiroll bars in general for '80s cars seems very haphazard compared with the good old FIAT 128, which had the bar passing right through the control arms, and the pivot brackets mounted very sturdily on the car's structure. I see that many cars these days have vague-looking drop links to the ends of the bar - and the Uno has those end brackets operating at a very odd angle on the control arms IMHO... did you find that the rubber bushes at the ends of the bar were all torn-out?

-Alex
I agree that the anti-roll bar seems a little haphazard. In fact, it does look almost like an afterthought... I wonder if it was designed into the Uno later on?

And yes, the end bushes were all pretty much shot to pieces from both the turbos I pulled roll bars from. Luckily I picked one up new off Ebay, and the other side I used the best one from the selection I had. When finances allow I will invest in some poly bushes.

Strangely enough, the inner bushes looked like they were hardly worn at all.

Also Morten, I guess if the outer brackets are a little worn it shouldn't matter too much, but if the rubber wears down to the metal then that won't be good. Metal rubbing on metal is likely to cause fatigue and the bracket might break. The rubber insulates against this as well as reducing noise.

Tomorrow brings another day where my anti-roll bar Uno can attack roundabouts and corners again

Chas
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Last edited by Chas Uno; 06-09-2005 at 02:21.
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Old 06-09-2005   #14
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Re: Fitting turbo anti roll bar to 45S

Quote Originally Posted by 1986Uno45S
Cheers Morten! And it's good to see you back on the Forum again.
Yeah, been a busy bee. There has been a lot of planning and work and kids etc., but Im now back as a married man... And it feels great.

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Old 06-09-2005   #15
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Re: Fitting turbo anti roll bar to 45S

when i got my car, and put in new suspension (dampers and springs) changed the lower control arm, took out the rubber bush, and replaced it with a poly, as well as the anti-roll bar bushes (4 off) all of this combined with the new wider tyres, brake system and engine pep really made it go-kartish. i'm sure, like you all say the heavier engine helps too. will be intresting to see after nearly 4 years what the state of the poly bushes will be, as well as the ball joints when i do finally get the chance to tear her apart..
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