Hi folks,

I have this 1994 Uno 1100 with a new problem. While driving it will all of a sudden make the most horrible metal and knuckle busting noise possible coming from the front. When this happens while going forward or backwards it sounds like the wheels are breaking off the car. (The left hand side one). Also it feels like I am bumping over large rocks. So the wheel is turning unevenly – a LOT!

I have found through inspection that I am able to literally push the left shaft back in/towards the diff by about 6mm. In other words at that stage there is a 6mm horizontal play on the drive shaft. Once I have done this, I am able to drive for quite a bit before it pops out again. Only about 6mm. This got me thinking. Where on earth is this play coming from.

IMPORTANT OBSERVATION: Also, the moment I push it in, I am NOT able to wiggle it back and forth any further, in other words the play is missing and everything is normal again.

The hub nut is as tight as hell and definitely not loose. If it was a weight problem or track arm problem, then surely when the weight is changed, it would self-correct. Also I’m almost sure that moving the tripod 6mm out from its default position will not pull it out far enough to disengage from the diff.

My conclusion and this is where you guys come in, is that the CV joint is damaged in such a way that the shaft actually comes loose inside it or pushes a little bit further into it than it should, causing all the horrible sound and bumpiness. It must be pushing in about 6mm it seems which is where the temporary free play comes from. Then I simply push the shaft towards the diff (pulling out of the CV) and all is good for a while. Can anybody please confirm if this is at all possible and if the problem is not somewhere else perhaps.

The part which drew my conclusions towards a buggered CV is the fact that I am able to move the drive shaft so easily while all four wheels are solid on the ground. I have replaced the tripods a while back and checked them yesterday, they are just fine, no sign of damage inside the diff (looking in from outside) either.

Please if someone knowledgeable can just check my conclusions and understanding it would really help a lot.

We are leaving town soon and hitting the long road. Got retrenched – AGAIN! So we need to get the old lady back to a reliable state. We don’t have a lot of money therefore cannot afford to run the regular trial-and-error approach the mechanics have over here in order to sap the last pennies out of people.

Please help!

Check your lower balljoints and lower control arm bushes !
I have seen broken gearbox finaldrive casings as a result of this. It just a matter of time!!
Balljoints cost around R150 ea from Midas. It's not a particulary difficult or expensive repair and if you can do it yourself so much the better.

I would check the bearing first!

is there a circlip / retaining clip in there that is damaged / missing?,

Charlie

Hi folks,

Thanks so much for all the replies.

Ball joint seems solid, so do the bushes on the control arm.

What concerns me is the amount of horizontal free play which is available while the car is on the ground at the time of the noise. How is it possible for so much movement? The only place where the shaft is truly attached is at the CV side not so?

So I was thinking that when I am able to push the shaft towards the diff, it is literally moving “out of” the CV which is not supposed to be possible right?

When I push it towards the diff, it is not the arm or wheel or anything else that is moving to allow me to do so, it simply and easily slides from the CV side about 6mm towards the diff and then firmly remains in place. So I concluded that for some reason or another is being “absorbed” or at some stage pushes into the CV further that it is supposed to. Is this really possible?

Also, on the diff side, will a 6mm movement from the default resting place of the tripod be far enough to disengage it from the diff?

Also what I find interesting is that each and every time this happens, I simply push it away from the CV side towards the diff and it works perfect…perfect in the sense that without seeing the actual tripod and aligning it with the diff, it seems to always be exactly opposite the correct position which kind of got me thinking that it never really leaves the diff otherwise it would have been misaligned and I would have had to turn the shaft until the tripod is aligned with the diff to get it back in, just like I do when I completely remove it…

So basically I was wondering just how much horizontal movement is possible in the diff before the tripod is completely disengaged from the diff and is it possible for the CV to fail in such a way that the shaft could momentarily stick further into it than it should?

Warm regards,

varesecrazy said:

is there a circlip / retaining clip in there that is damaged / missing?,

Charlie

Click to expand...

Hi there, I think the only circlip involved would be the one inside the CV joint (I have not taken the CV apart), the shaft is otherwise kept in tight bu the hub nut. On the tripod side there is also a circlip which keeps it attached to the shaft, but that side is solid. The play seems to be momentarily facilitated by the CV. Weird thing though is that once I push it back towards the diff, it stays in place and I cant wiggle it back and forth, so the play disappears and everything is normal until next time that is...

I think that if it was the arm etc, then I would not be able to simply slide it over like that, not sure if my conclusion is correct...but none of the parts move when I slide it back, its just the shaft - so I thought it is coming out of the CV...is this really possible?

Oh, I just though I would add this extra bit of info. During the state of disrepair, when I press down on the clutch or disengage the gears (back to neutral) I am able to push the car around etc without the noise, but when I release the clutch or put it back into gear, it continues to rumble until I slightly move the shaft inwards towards the diff by the available +/- 6mm. All these thoughts are driving me nuts

Here is another theory. On the hub nut it is normally possible to punch down the "lip" on the nut into the little groove on the shaft's end in order to prevent it from coming loose again. I have noticed that the nut turns in so far that the lip of the nut goes in deeper than the little groove. Is it thus possible that the shaft is not install far enough into the diff? Perhaps an extra washer between the CV and the hub would space it better and thus cause the shaft to install deeper into the diff. Could something like this be a problem or not?

DigitalNomad said:

All these thoughts are driving me nuts

Here is another theory. On the hub nut it is normally possible to punch down the "lip" on the nut into the little groove on the shaft's end in order to prevent it from coming loose again. I have noticed that the nut turns in so far that the lip of the nut goes in deeper than the little groove. Is it thus possible that the shaft is not install far enough into the diff? Perhaps an extra washer between the CV and the hub would space it better and thus cause the shaft to install deeper into the diff. Could something like this be a problem or not?

Click to expand...

From memory , and your descripion this could be the exact cause,
maybe a washer/ packer was put out-of-sequence , in the wrong place,
that would certainly explain the staked nut being in the wrong position along the "stack length",

Have a trawl through ePER - top of page - Banner,
to look at the exploded views of driveshaft assembly,

that may give you some ideas, have fun..,
Charlie

Update:

OK, so I checked out the hub nut and washers etc, and they are all in the correct order etc...I started thinking a bit more that it also does not explain the temporary free play I get on the shaft when it temporarily pulls, what seems to be, into the CV joint.

If anybody has more ideas, I'm all ears:bang:

The wheelbearing is a double row anular ball bearing sealed on both sides.

Effectively 2 bearings back to back in one housing , it is possible that the inner row has failed and allows the joint to move outward by your measured 6mm, this would also account for the nut being too far on to be locked into the nip on the cv joint.

It is also possible there is wear on the driven hub that allows the shaft to enter too deeply , i had to clean mine up in the lathe as the end had been a bitty marred for some reason and my nut went on maybe a 1/4 of a turn more , interestingly also the LHS.

Have the balljoints ever been replaced? It is extremely unlikely given the model that they are in good order, they can be deceptively difficult to diagnose without a crowbar used to test them.
Any knocking in the front suspension when you go over bumps indicates wear that needs attention.

Easiest is to go to a wheel alignment shop and ask them to check the status of your front suspension, they usually won't charge and it takes them less time than it does to get the car onto the ramp.

Just another thought, also check your rear gearbox mount , it could allow lateral movement contributing to your problem.

UPDATE:

I took your advice "somyunguy" and took the car in to a tyre fitment center. They put it through their paces and checked the ball-joints with a crow-bar even, the bushes on the control arm, the shocks and even the tie rod ends. Everything is the way it should be. I was advised to start saving up for the shocks though, they have a little device they stick to the side of the body and measure the bounce back. On all for wheels it measures 4 each time. apparently if they go 5 or more, that's it for them then. In the end they also set the alingment for me - just in case. It was a little out.

I went to a few mechanics too. Each had their own theory and no once can explain why it appears as if the shaft stick into the CV. I got to one guy who told me that apparently on the old Uno's it does happen that the chassis part where the control arm bolts to the chassis bends outwards over time and from old age or something. Apparently the chassis can be bent right again, but what they did in the past to prevent all that hassle was to simply add a spacer between the CV joint and the wheel bearing, essentially causing the shaft to settle deeper into the diff and compensate for the bit that the chassis has bent outwards.

I went to a bolts and nuts shop and got 2x2mmx24mm washers. Took the CV loose from the hub and added the washers and then put the regular one back too and reassembled. Just drove about 30km and so far so good.

On my way to to the mechanics and tyre place earlier on though it did pop out a few times, like when I take a left turn up a ramp or steep embankment - it really does not like those as the angle seems to aggravate the shaft pulling out of the diff.

I'm going to drive onto and off from the pavement a few times and up and down some off-ramps and cornering tomorrow to give it a good test. It's as hot as hell here now, so going to settle down with a big jar of strawberry yogurt

Has anybody ever heard of the Uno chassis bending out of shape in the area where the control arms attach?

The chassis does distort overtime, usually , it's not possible to correct wheel alignment without some slotting or bending on older models.
I've had 97 from new and the camber could only be set by slotting the new strut i had fitted , in retrospect i would consider fitting a shock brace to keep the 2 shock towers aligned . Hindsight is always 20/20.
So yes they do bend , but i can't comment on the washer scenario.

Keep us posted , be interesting to know if it cures the problem permanently.

Hie DigitalNomad I had the exact problem with my uno and went through hell trying to get it to drive well. We only discovered that indeed the chasis pulls apart causing the free play of the driveshaft which in turn would cause the cv to pop out. We fitted a space between the cv and hub and it made a big difference then later on we discovered the diff in the transverse gearbox was damaged actaully spider inside the diff unit was damaged . So these the two possibilities for your problem

UPDATE

Hey all. Well I've driven to two nearby towns as well as about 40km round town. Went through a few potholes, some corrugation and a lightweight off-ramp or two and so far so good

It would seem as if the added spacers of about 4mm between the CV joint and the wheel bearing is working. I just hope the chassis does not bend to much any further. I'm trying to think of ways to prevent that.

I was thinking of tightening a strong chain between the two sides where the control arms attach in hope that it will not bent apart any further. One chap I spoke to said it was so severe on his Uno that apparently at the bottom of the firewall area, the chassis actually split open. They fixed it by cross welding two pieces of steel flat iron after bending it closed.

Perhaps its time we consider letting our little Uno go

It's just that we went through so much together and the engine is quite good still. The number 4 plug fowls up on oil regularly and dies - I think it might be a knackered valve stamp seal. But that's about all. At around 90km/h and at the cost of frustrating the hell out of other motorists, we still get 17.5km's / liter of fuel and it has done over 200,000km already:slayer:

Anyhow, it seems like this is the end of this chapter for the repairs. Thanks to all for your suggestions and effort to get us back on the road again.

Safe driving !

I would also suggest checking something that I don't think I spotted being checked in all of this - make sure the circlip is still holding the inner Tripode joint onto the splined part of the driveshaft. Sounds to me like the joint's central part may be coming off the splines (rather than the whole joint coming out of the diff).

-Alex

The drive shaft shouldn't be able to pop out without the distance between the gearbox and the hub being changed. My tip, check your engine mounts. If they are loose the engine and gearbox will move around, which could cause the drive shaft to pop out.

Hi

If u still having that issue, check the circlip inside cv joint. Had the same problem, sorted out now.:slayer:

I had a similar problem, went through all those process of checking the tripod adding a spacer, changing all the mountains and finally i changed my front shocks an the problem was solved till today.

01-04-2016
PROBLEM FOUND
I had the very same problem as where the left tripod slightly pulled out from the gearbox causing the drive shaft to slip when driving. I took my measuring tape and measured the distance from the center of the rear wheel to the center of the front wheel. I did it on both sides and by comparing the two distances between the left and the right side, I found that my left front wheel moved 15mm backwards due to a stone that I hit some time ago. I followed the advice that I found on this page by using an 8mm spacer between the CV and the hub until I can take my car to a panel beater so they can panel beat my left front wheel back into its original place again. Thank you for the advice as I am mobile again.

Kind regards
Andre Van Der Mescht

Goood day Guys

Went through everything that's been said on this subject.
Also have an uno that travels 180km everyday.
Spacers wont work,even some places says chassis is bend.
To bend an chassis is hard, in actual fact if its bend its an write off car.
The real problem lies actually in all three the rubber mountings.
Nobody looks at it but rubbers also get worn out,you dont hear it or feal it but thats whats been giving problems.
Have an look,its the smalest out of mind thing that causess the problem.