Technical Strange noise and start up problem.

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Technical Strange noise and start up problem.

El Greeno

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:bang: Hello,

My Uno was running fine a week ago but now it has trouble starting and makes a whining noise at higher revs.

It is a J reg 1108cc (FIRE) uno 60. When starting from cold, the engine seems to struggle and die. If i accelerate in neutral, then release the throttle, the car also dies. I have replaced the spark plugs, distributor cap and rotor arm

As to the whining noise, i have replaced the alternator belt, the clutch release bearing, the cam belt tensioner. The noise seems to be coming from the left or top of the engine (looking from front of car). Any ideas??

p.s. When the whining noise is happening, when the car is in motion, there seems to be a faint noise like a crackling (sort of like a just boiled kettle).
 
Might not be this at all. But - check the oil breather. The hose from the rocker cover that goes into the air filter box. There is a brass filter in there that might clog due to oil deposits.

Morten.
 
My Uno 60S has a breather pipe that comes from a connection at the bottom of the engine and runs up to the air cleaner box. There is also a smaller pipe that runs off this pipe and connects to the base of the carb. Would the main pipe also have a brass filter fitted?
Cheers
Bryan
 
I've checked the filter and the pipe - all fine.
Also ive taken off the rocker cover - all fine.
Still got a squeal/whistle and cold start problems.

Any other ideas??
:confused:
 
See this

About the whining noise - could be one of the bearings holding the cam shaft.

Or it could be the alternator itself - try removing the belt and running the engine to see if the noise goes away.
 
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An over-tight cambelt makes a whining noise. This seems particularly likely considering that the tensioner has just been replaced.

Most people seem to over-tension cambelts. Rule of thumb is that you should just be able to twist the belt through 90 degrees using thumb and forefinger along longest run of belt. Personally, I prefer mine a bit slacker, say 120 degrees 'twist'. I learned this after seeing how extremely-slack the belt is on my Alfa (with automatic tension adjustment). Try slackening it off and see if the noise changes.

As for the starting/cutting out issue - sounds like it is running too lean due to an air leak. Check your vacuum advance capsule on the distributor (pull the pipe off the carburettor and suck on it). There should be no air movement through it, if there is, first check the end of the pipe at the carburettor end for cracks/splits. If pipe looks OK then replace distributor vacuum advance capsule. Morten knows all about this :)

-Alex
 
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alexGS said:
Check your vacuum advance capsule on the distributor (pull the pipe off the carburettor and suck on it). There should be no air movement through it, if there is, first check the end of the pipe at the carburettor end for cracks/splits. If pipe looks OK then replace distributor vacuum advance capsule. Morten knows all about this :)

-Alex

Best of luck checking/adjusting the carburettor/vacumn advance on an SPI car - will be difficult considering it doesn't have one.

More likely poor running is due to a faulty potentiometer - when this sensor wears out the ECU gets confused and the car likes to stall.
 
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Martin,

Oh dear, I knew I would have to make a mistake with the 'new' Uno models sooner or later... ;)

Thanks for the correction and sorry that I've never seen an 1108cc-engined Uno 60. Ours in NZ are only the 1301cc, 1116cc or the 999cc FIRE. The Mk2 models are mostly the 1372cc.

I seem to recall reading on this forum that the throttle position potentiometer/switch must be adjusted properly so that it 'clicks' as the throttle closes, and the ECU runs the injector at 50% reduced-duration for engine idling.

-Alex
 
Martiny10 said:
Best of luck checking/adjusting the carburettor/vacumn advance on an SPI car - will be difficult considering it doesn't have one.

More likely poor running is due to a faulty potentiometer - when this sensor wears out the ECU gets confused and the car likes to stall.

Must have been in a bad mood when I wrote this!

No need to apologise - a J reg car could indeed have a carb (one of the last to do so). My mistake.

It was all good advice - though dependent on what's bolted to the car!
 
Hi everyone,

My Uno does indeed have a Carburettor and a vacuum advance on the distributor (i think that is what you meant). I think it has a single injector below the carb, but im not too sure.

I have ran the car with the alternator belt off, and the noise still persists. Also, my cam belt has at least 90 degrees flex in it.

I have taken the rocker cover off and examined the bearings on the cam shaft - all looked fine, and the oil was free flowing into the rocker cover (p.s. dont run an engine with the rocker cover off - messy)

I have also done a complete oil change and oil filter change.

My costs are making this car not worth having...

please keep the suggestions coming.
 
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Try changing the water pump they can make those noises. Also check the carb isn't 'icing' up ie getting very cold this will cause the tick over issues.
 
I have found and replaced a leaky head gasket.

The problem is, i have discovered that the front and rear bearings/shells on the cam shaft have not been recieving oil. they are welded onto the casing, and there is slight scoring on the camshaft (rear bearing). How do i remove them, and how much are new ones??? Will the camshaft need skimming, and if so, how much will this cost???

More to the point, why did the oil stop flowing???

Considering scrapping if too costly...
 
Hi, interesting developments.

Apparently there is a common problem with the FIRE where the oil spray tube (under the cam cover) gets clogged. I suggest you remove this spray-tube and get it blown through with an air-line (compressed air) although you could rinse it in engine degreaser and use a tyre inflator to blow air through it.

As for the bearings, get a second opinion on their condition. I'd be inclined to just clean up the surfaces a bit with wet-or-dry sandpaper, 400-600grade, and put it back together. But if they are badly worn, you might need the help of an engine shop - or how much is a replacement cylinder head anyway, second-hand?

I wonder how you got on with the idling problem... a few notes:
- that 'injector' you noticed at the bottom of the carb is probably a fuel-cutoff valve. Test it by unplugging it with the engine idling. If the engine stops, that's good - no difference, that's bad. Means that the fuel cutoff control unit is probably faulty and not switching the valve on when it should (it should only switch it off with the throttle closed at high revs). Quick fix: wire the cutoff valve to the positive terminal on the ignition coil (orange/red wires live with the ignition 'on') Edit: with Uno 45 FIRE, the valve is simply wired to the ignition anyway, so you might not have the fuel cutoff control unit: the fuel simply cuts off with the ignition.

- You don't have a throttle position potentiometer with a carburettor. However, there is a simple 'switch' (if you have the fuel-cutoff feature described above) where a wire is hooked up to the idle speed screw/spring. The idea is that this wire is grounded when the throttle is closed. It could be that this is not working properly, so clean it up and test (if you have a multimeter). Edit: if you can't find this wire, you probably don't have the fuel cutoff control unit either.

- Vacuum advance: test by sucking on pipe, there should not be a continuous flow of air. If there is, that gives two faults: an air leak, and a lack of ignition advance. Either of these faults will upset the idle. The vacuum advance unit is pretty easy to change and quite a common fault.

- Carb icing up: not an issue until you're actually driving again! Cold mornings/fast driving might give this problem - there should be a hot air pipe from the exhaust manifold on the front of the engine, to the air cleaner housing. Make sure this pipe is in place. Inside the air filter housing (undo the clips and remove to inspect) there is a thermostatic flap: you should find the flap closing-off the cold-air intake with the housing cold. If not, jam the flap somehow to ensure hot-air intake works.

Theory of carb icing: the small venturi inside the carburettor (tiny, for the carburettor in question!) causes an increase in air velocity and hence a decrease in the air pressure (Bernoulli's effect) to draw out the fuel. This decrease in pressure gives a rapid temperature drop. Moisture in the air can freeze, literally blocking the fuel jets.

Warm air collected from around the exhaust manifold has a lower moisture content, and of course the temperature in the carburettor will be increased also. Once the engine is warm, carb icing is less of a problem due to the heat conducted from the engine into the carburettor.

Older carburettors had engine coolant flowing around the venturi; but the Weber TLF carburettor doesn't have this. Though the 'dummy' pipe stubs are present, they are not hollowed-out.

Thanks,
-Alex
 
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Nice
icon1.gif
alexGS!

alexGS said:
Hi, interesting developments...

... there should be a hot air pipe from the exhaust manifold on the front of the engine, to the air cleaner housing. Make sure this pipe is in place. Inside the air filter housing (undo the clips and remove to inspect) there is a thermostatic flap: you should find the flap closing-off the cold-air intake with the housing cold. If not, jam the flap somehow to ensure hot-air intake works.... Thanks,
-Alex
icon4.gif
Take care how you jam this part as its delicate!

I tested my air intake thermostat flap with an ice cube and hot water (after re-mounting the flap - not easy :eek: ): -

On hot days,
Remove the front part of the air filter box; if the ambient temperature is hot the flap should be pointing horizontally, allowing only cold air through. Press the block of ice to the temperature sensitive lump of metal inside air filter box (Other end of mechanism to the flap) and the flap will start moving towards vertical position (allowing more and more heated air in).

On Cold Days,
Similar process, remove front of air filter box, but pore hot water (not boiling) onto the "temperature sensitive lump ". The flap should travel from vertical to horizontal, to let more cold air in. Make sure you dry it before re-assembling.

On days neither hot nor cold :confused: ,
The flap should be sitting between - letting air from both sauces. You can always do both above tests to make sure. I’m not sure of the exact fully open or closed temperature values, although you will now know if it’s stuck.

I hope this helps ;) !
Regards All,
 
My J reg 60s used to do the exact same thing especially in this cold snap we are having.
Make sure you have the foil covered pipe that runs from the top of the exhaust mainfold to the airbox fitted and it is in good shape as this provides warm air on start up, well once the engine starts of course.
The other noises could be your water pipes frozen up so ensure you have correct anitfreeze mixture.
I just give mine about half choke for a few mins with no load on these cold mornings ie radio heaters etc.
Then close it in as I accellerate to get her warmed up nicely.
Pete
 
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