this should give an diea of location
Tuning 1368cc 16V FIRE Turbo (T-Jet) Uno conversion
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Tuning 1368cc 16V FIRE Turbo (T-Jet) Uno conversion
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Better hope it works then, or it has it's tube still as I can't access that with the floor I have!
Leigh is breaking a what I seem to remember being an SPI Uno and he is in your neck of the woods
http://www.turbocollective.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=3688&sid=91669000734eae1016406637447c0481
Here is the one off my Red un (scrapped ages ago).
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A video of the pump noise this morning. Car is not started and pump running around 12V. Haven't even gone anywhere today and cavitation is at the early stages.
Second video is with the engine running and the cavitation is now getting more serious. If I went for a drive now in the heat today, the noise would become constant and pressure drop to dangerous levels.
I tried pinching the 90 degree hose coming from the tank as hard as I could and it does not make the noise increase. If it were a general supply of fuel issue, this would surely dramatically affect the pump condition? Fuel vapour is being created somewhere.
Second video is with the engine running and the cavitation is now getting more serious. If I went for a drive now in the heat today, the noise would become constant and pressure drop to dangerous levels.
I tried pinching the 90 degree hose coming from the tank as hard as I could and it does not make the noise increase. If it were a general supply of fuel issue, this would surely dramatically affect the pump condition? Fuel vapour is being created somewhere.
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I am giving up on this one. The car seems to perform OK, despite the problem, so I am going to have to leave it and take my chances on the trip. I leave tomorrow at midday, so I need to spend the time cleaning the car and tidying up the dash, etc.
Out of all the things I thought I might have a problem with, the fuel was not one of them.
Out of all the things I thought I might have a problem with, the fuel was not one of them.
Not played the video yet as I just got our 9 week old to sleep
Where’s the fuel filter and pump support bracket
Where’s the fuel filter and pump support bracket
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That sounds a lot like air is being drawn through the pump. This would cause big problems in the injection and pressure side of things.
You say it occurs on several pumps?
As a test, I'd remove the entire setup from the tank outlet and block it quickly, run fresh pipe before the filter, and pump, and stick it in the top of the tank. Worst comes worst, stick a line down the filler, or drop the tank and run a tube from the top of the tank by removing the breather line. Not an drivable setup, but certainly a testable setup. See if the noise is gone
If air is in the pump you would def get lean conditions and pressure issues.
Can you feel a vibration or pulsing in the pipe as the noise is made?
You say it occurs on several pumps?
As a test, I'd remove the entire setup from the tank outlet and block it quickly, run fresh pipe before the filter, and pump, and stick it in the top of the tank. Worst comes worst, stick a line down the filler, or drop the tank and run a tube from the top of the tank by removing the breather line. Not an drivable setup, but certainly a testable setup. See if the noise is gone
If air is in the pump you would def get lean conditions and pressure issues.
Can you feel a vibration or pulsing in the pipe as the noise is made?
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Just read what cavitation actually is... :bang: So that is what I was describing. Not a clue then, other than remove the pre filter, possibly use a bigger one or not bother. Or try larger hose pre pump, or a new less restricted inlet to the pump.
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Not played the video yet as I just got our 9 week old to sleep
Where’s the fuel filter and pump support bracket
It is there, it has been modded to accept two pumps. Obviously the pump is hanging down because I am testing.
That sounds a lot like air is being drawn through the pump. This would cause big problems in the injection and pressure side of things.
You say it occurs on several pumps?
As a test, I'd remove the entire setup from the tank outlet and block it quickly, run fresh pipe before the filter, and pump, and stick it in the top of the tank. Worst comes worst, stick a line down the filler, or drop the tank and run a tube from the top of the tank by removing the breather line. Not an drivable setup, but certainly a testable setup. See if the noise is gone
If air is in the pump you would def get lean conditions and pressure issues.
Can you feel a vibration or pulsing in the pipe as the noise is made?
It occurs on two other pumps. This one is new just to help eliminate a faulty pump. The video only demonstrates the issue early on. When I've been driving a bit the noise is very loud and constant. I can feel the vibration and pulsing through the pipes, yes. It doesn't cause driving problems as it is now. I just went for a 30 minutes cane with a bit of cruising and I never had a problem, even with sustained 5-6000RPM and 2nd gear accelerations.
I have had the stretches of feeder pipe off. There didn;t seem anything wrong with them. I can see through the length of them as they are short! I did an experiment like you suggest with fuel going down a single length of pipe into the top of the tank. The noise is still there. Air is still getting in somehow. The issue worsens considerably when the pump is under pressure, like when it is put on the rail and held at a pressure by the regulator, but it is still apparent just lifting the fuel into the top of the tank.
As I say, any more experiments will have to be done end of next week as I have run out of time. I will bring a spare pump and some hose and that's all I can do now.
A bigger filter and bigger pre pump lines? thers not much avalable above 10mm is there?
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What I don't get is I am using standard equipment here. The filter and pipes are standard spec, original parts. Never read of another UT owner have these problems, yet my setup is incredibly sensitive to the issue. Just doesn't make sense...
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From Wikipedia:
Suction cavitation occurs when the pump suction is under a low-pressure/high-vacuum condition where the liquid turns into a vapor at the eye of the pump impeller. This vapor is carried over to the discharge side of the pump, where it no longer sees vacuum and is compressed back into a liquid by the discharge pressure. This imploding action occurs violently and attacks the face of the impeller. An impeller that has been operating under a suction cavitation condition can have large chunks of material removed from its face or very small bits of material removed, causing the impeller to look spongelike. Both cases will cause premature failure of the pump, often due to bearing failure. Suction cavitation is often identified by a sound like gravel or marbles in the pump casing.
In automotive applications, a clogged filter in a hydraulic system (power steering, power brakes) can cause suction cavitation making a noise that rises and falls in synch with engine RPM. It is fairly often a high pitched whine, like set of nylon gears not quite meshing correctly.
Suction cavitation occurs when the pump suction is under a low-pressure/high-vacuum condition where the liquid turns into a vapor at the eye of the pump impeller. This vapor is carried over to the discharge side of the pump, where it no longer sees vacuum and is compressed back into a liquid by the discharge pressure. This imploding action occurs violently and attacks the face of the impeller. An impeller that has been operating under a suction cavitation condition can have large chunks of material removed from its face or very small bits of material removed, causing the impeller to look spongelike. Both cases will cause premature failure of the pump, often due to bearing failure. Suction cavitation is often identified by a sound like gravel or marbles in the pump casing.
In automotive applications, a clogged filter in a hydraulic system (power steering, power brakes) can cause suction cavitation making a noise that rises and falls in synch with engine RPM. It is fairly often a high pitched whine, like set of nylon gears not quite meshing correctly.
Have you tried running the pump with the fuel tank cap open? That would obviously take away any cavitation, unless the blockage was in between the pump and the line from the tank.
It actually sounds like air is being drawn through the vanes of the pump. It could be that your outlet from the tank is blocked, and the pump is pulling air back past jubilee clips and other connectors as it tries to pump fuel it doesn't have.
Its good practise to drop the tank occasionally anyway. I dropped it on the panda, was full of red paint and other crap. Washed it out and left it to dry.
It actually sounds like air is being drawn through the vanes of the pump. It could be that your outlet from the tank is blocked, and the pump is pulling air back past jubilee clips and other connectors as it tries to pump fuel it doesn't have.
Its good practise to drop the tank occasionally anyway. I dropped it on the panda, was full of red paint and other crap. Washed it out and left it to dry.
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I've tried every combination of things now. I know there are pages of this crap now, so it is hard to take it all in.
I will certainly be dropping the tank when I return from my trip and giving it a clean and using new pipe to the pump. It has to work then unless there is a science vacuum surrounding the Uno.
Quite true; I have nothing worthwhile to add
Reading the article from Wikipedia does make me want to strip and service the pump/filters on my standard Uno Turbo; it's made a sort of crunchy whining noise for years! The possible impeller damage probably isn't referring to the Bosch roller-cell pump design, which is very durable.
Sounds maddening but I'm sure if you change enough parts, you'll get there. Isn't there some sort of pressure-damper assembly in the standard setup - are you using that?
Enjoy your trip - it's looking and sounding great. Wish we had a chance to meet but I'm only in London for a couple of days.
-Alex
Only the early MK1 had the damper
I'm just back from Oultern Park
Thanks for taking us out in the Uno lewey
Shame I only lasted one lap :nutter: will post up some pics later Ere you go
https://www.fiatforum.com/gallery/showgallery.php?cat=2991
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Back from 3 days of superb driving in Wales and at Oulton Park. Did some of the best roads in Wales including the Elan Valley, EVO triangle and famous Top Gear spots.
Thanks to Louie for being helpful at the track day. He nipped home to get parts and tools after I had an incident where the wing engine mount failed and the engine dropped down at 100 MPH! Unbelievably, I hadn't really realised there was a serious problem other than a scraping noise and I kept driving for half a lap, before pulling over. The scraping was the intercooler on the ground, which took a hammering.
Perhaps more unbelievable was that in a couple of hours I was out on track again and for the rest of the afternoon! The single large bolt that screws into the mount had simply unscrewed itself! This must have happened over the three days of occasionally very bumpy roads in Wales. The engine had dropped down on the side, but nothing was damaged other than the intercooler mounts and the intercooler. The bolt in question remained in the eye of the metal mount on the engine due to a spacer on the bolt stopping it from falling the ground as it had become the slightest bit distorted. There are pictures of all this I think, but photos and video from my friends are still being collated.
I have a couple of on-board videos, so for now I've just uploaded a couple of laps facing back off the car:
Fuel starvation was not an issue until I had under 1/4 tank. Oil starvation was hopefully not an issue! I never saw the pressure light, but I wasn't really looking very often.
Brakes need an upgrade. First two outings saw the brakes on fire after 4 laps. After this I just learnt to brake less hard and lift early to keep them from fading. EBC Yellowstuff proving to be completely not up to the task on a 257mm disc (late Punto GT setup).
Thanks to Louie for being helpful at the track day. He nipped home to get parts and tools after I had an incident where the wing engine mount failed and the engine dropped down at 100 MPH! Unbelievably, I hadn't really realised there was a serious problem other than a scraping noise and I kept driving for half a lap, before pulling over. The scraping was the intercooler on the ground, which took a hammering.
Perhaps more unbelievable was that in a couple of hours I was out on track again and for the rest of the afternoon! The single large bolt that screws into the mount had simply unscrewed itself! This must have happened over the three days of occasionally very bumpy roads in Wales. The engine had dropped down on the side, but nothing was damaged other than the intercooler mounts and the intercooler. The bolt in question remained in the eye of the metal mount on the engine due to a spacer on the bolt stopping it from falling the ground as it had become the slightest bit distorted. There are pictures of all this I think, but photos and video from my friends are still being collated.
I have a couple of on-board videos, so for now I've just uploaded a couple of laps facing back off the car:
Fuel starvation was not an issue until I had under 1/4 tank. Oil starvation was hopefully not an issue! I never saw the pressure light, but I wasn't really looking very often.
Brakes need an upgrade. First two outings saw the brakes on fire after 4 laps. After this I just learnt to brake less hard and lift early to keep them from fading. EBC Yellowstuff proving to be completely not up to the task on a 257mm disc (late Punto GT setup).
Did the forward facing vid turn out OK? can't get my head round the rearward one.
that guy aint replied to me about them pics. did you try and contact him?
that guy aint replied to me about them pics. did you try and contact him?
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Forgot! I'll give him a go. I do have front facing too! Just no engine noise on that one makes it feel weird. Is a general problem with all the external video I took on the holiday that isn't right by the exhaust!
