Register Login
im Axle Specialists
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 16-01-2007   #1
Diesel rules!
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Burton-on-Trent
Posts: 28
Thanks: 0
Trader Rating: 0
Tipo Jack has donated!
United Kingdom 
Diesel starting / glow plug issues

Whilst this has been covered a little in another thread, I felt it needed a specific thread to get some advice.

My TD SX (1993 Mk.2) is a very poor starter. I've changed the glow plugs and in spite of the fact that I have not tested the old ones they certainly didn't look like they would not work. The problem I am having is that when I turn the ignition on, the glowplug light stays on for 20 seconds! What is even more weird is the fact that when the light goes out and I start the car, the light comes on again for about 5 seconds! From a cold start up the car misfires occasionally with a puff of white smoke (unburnt fuel) on every misfire. I live on a road near a lot of schools and it's getting a little embarrasing smoking out a load of children every morning with their disapproving mothers looking on (especially since I am Manager of a Pollution Control section of a Local Authority!).

Am I right in saying that there is some sort of glowplug control box which determines their use dependant on engine temperature etc.? Could this be at fault? If so, how can I test it? Incidentally, it's not a great starter even when warm, taking a few cranks to get going. Any advice
__________________
Tipo 1.9TD SX
Tipo Jack is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 16-01-2007   #2
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: sunny Spain
Posts: 1,768
Thanks: 4
Trader Rating: 0
Cocoon Island Champion, Cupids Crush Champion, Crazy Pinball Champion, Pinball 7UP Champion, Rotamania Champion, Starsky n Hutch PinBall Champion
United Kingdom 
Re: Diesel starting / glow plug issues

Quote Originally Posted by Tipo Jack View Post
Whilst this has been covered a little in another thread, I felt it needed a specific thread to get some advice.

My TD SX (1993 Mk.2) is a very poor starter. I've changed the glow plugs and in spite of the fact that I have not tested the old ones they certainly didn't look like they would not work. The problem I am having is that when I turn the ignition on, the glowplug light stays on for 20 seconds! What is even more weird is the fact that when the light goes out and I start the car, the light comes on again for about 5 seconds! From a cold start up the car misfires occasionally with a puff of white smoke (unburnt fuel) on every misfire. I live on a road near a lot of schools and it's getting a little embarrasing smoking out a load of children every morning with their disapproving mothers looking on (especially since I am Manager of a Pollution Control section of a Local Authority!).

Am I right in saying that there is some sort of glowplug control box which determines their use dependant on engine temperature etc.? Could this be at fault? If so, how can I test it? Incidentally, it's not a great starter even when warm, taking a few cranks to get going. Any advice
Clean/change the fuel filter. You have water in the fuel.
In the Winter, engines require a greater degree of cranking to start them, especially diesels. As the diesel engine has a high compression to burn the diesel oil [fuel as its really known by], then any wear in the compressions, will put a bigger strain on the glow plugs for starting. Sometimes with wear, they wont start unless something like Bradex Easy Start is squirted up the inlet. This gives the compression a quick boost to crank the engine into starting.
Try cleaning or changing the fuel filter, and give the injectors some injector cleaner in the fuel tank. Diesel injectors get clogged up quicker then petrol ones, so may need ultra sonic cleaning. BTW, how many miles has the car done??

Andy.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

sumplug is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 16-01-2007   #3
We're getting there
 
jonti's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: formerly Scotland
Posts: 455
Thanks: 24
Trader Rating: 0
jonti has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Diesel starting / glow plug issues

Andy - wot does the so called 'Glow Plug pre-heating system ECU' do (no. 92 on my wiring diagram). It clearly controls the light on the instrument panel but does this also control glowplug duration? Perhaps in this case as well as affecting the light this is affecting the gloplug response.

However I would tend to think think that it is only by addressing a host of things will the best outcome be reached, i.e. a powerful good condition battery well up for the job, charged by a healthy alternator, fuel pump renewal etc and injector cleaner which also seriously cuts down smoke on the move. I generally operate my gloplugs twice and keep the accelerator pushed down 1 or 2 cm when starting.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

jonti is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 17-01-2007   #4
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: sunny Spain
Posts: 1,768
Thanks: 4
Trader Rating: 0
Cocoon Island Champion, Cupids Crush Champion, Crazy Pinball Champion, Pinball 7UP Champion, Rotamania Champion, Starsky n Hutch PinBall Champion
United Kingdom 
Re: Diesel starting / glow plug issues

Quote Originally Posted by jonti View Post
Andy - wot does the so called 'Glow Plug pre-heating system ECU' do (no. 92 on my wiring diagram). It clearly controls the light on the instrument panel but does this also control glowplug duration? Perhaps in this case as well as affecting the light this is affecting the gloplug response.

However I would tend to think think that it is only by addressing a host of things will the best outcome be reached, i.e. a powerful good condition battery well up for the job, charged by a healthy alternator, fuel pump renewal etc and injector cleaner which also seriously cuts down smoke on the move. I generally operate my gloplugs twice and keep the accelerator pushed down 1 or 2 cm when starting.
Yep it controls the glowplugs by pre setting a heat figure for the glowplugs to reach.
Quite agree what you say on maintenance and also the "2 times start" which i used to find worked a treat on older diesels.

Andy.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

sumplug is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 17-01-2007   #5
Diesel rules!
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Burton-on-Trent
Posts: 28
Thanks: 0
Trader Rating: 0
Tipo Jack has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Diesel starting / glow plug issues

Quote Originally Posted by sumplug View Post
BTW, how many miles has the car done??

Andy.
Righto - I've got a fuel filter and I'll change that tonight to see if there is an improvement. I must admit that the water in filter light comes on when I turn the ignition on but goes out within about 5 seconds. Should it come on at all?

The car has done 81,000 miles and the injectors were re-newed at about 60,000 so I can't see them being a problem.

We'll see what happens after the fuel filter change.
__________________
Tipo 1.9TD SX
Tipo Jack is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 17-01-2007   #6
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: sunny Spain
Posts: 1,768
Thanks: 4
Trader Rating: 0
Cocoon Island Champion, Cupids Crush Champion, Crazy Pinball Champion, Pinball 7UP Champion, Rotamania Champion, Starsky n Hutch PinBall Champion
United Kingdom 
Re: Diesel starting / glow plug issues

Quote Originally Posted by Tipo Jack View Post
Righto - I've got a fuel filter and I'll change that tonight to see if there is an improvement. I must admit that the water in filter light comes on when I turn the ignition on but goes out within about 5 seconds. Should it come on at all?

The car has done 81,000 miles and the injectors were re-newed at about 60,000 so I can't see them being a problem.

We'll see what happens after the fuel filter change.
Wait for your next post.

Andy.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

sumplug is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 20-01-2007   #7
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: leamington spa
Posts: 11
Thanks: 0
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Diesel starting / glow plug issues

the 2 tries looks good cuz when i cold start mine it coughs and spluters a bit then chucks out loads of white smoke. the smoke disapears after shes fired up but it only does it in the cold could someone explain why cuz its frying my head
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

graytipo is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 21-01-2007   #8
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: sunny Spain
Posts: 1,768
Thanks: 4
Trader Rating: 0
Cocoon Island Champion, Cupids Crush Champion, Crazy Pinball Champion, Pinball 7UP Champion, Rotamania Champion, Starsky n Hutch PinBall Champion
United Kingdom 
Re: Diesel starting / glow plug issues

Quote Originally Posted by graytipo View Post
the 2 tries looks good cuz when i cold start mine it coughs and spluters a bit then chucks out loads of white smoke. the smoke disapears after shes fired up but it only does it in the cold could someone explain why cuz its frying my head
2 things really cause it in winter. Ambient temps and greater cranking pressures.
Temp effects the battery, fluids in engine denser, condensation in exhaust. Also, clean the fuel filter out. Water collects in the filter, and can effect cold starts.
For every gallon of fuel used, a pint of water is produced. In winter, it can linger in the silencer boxes. It is this that eventually rots your exhaust system.

Andy.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

sumplug is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 25-01-2007   #9
Diesel rules!
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Burton-on-Trent
Posts: 28
Thanks: 0
Trader Rating: 0
Tipo Jack has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Diesel starting / glow plug issues

No improvement. I've been on holiday and changed the fuel filter before I went. The glow plug light still stays on for 20 seconds and then comes back on after starting for a few more seconds. The "water in fuel filter" warning light still comes on when I turn the key and goes out after just 4 seconds or so. I suspect that comes on just to tell you that the light works and would be on all the time if you actually had water in the filter.

This all points towards the glowplug system. I am now wondering if it's related to the fact that my temp gauge does not work. Perhaps the control unit that decides if the glow plugs are needed is somehow affected by this and is thinking that the engine is warmer than it is? Still does not explain why the light stays on for 20 seconds. I think I'll try back to basics with a multimeter to see if the plugs are getting the charge they require to heat up.
__________________
Tipo 1.9TD SX
Tipo Jack is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 25-01-2007   #10
Diesel rules!
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Burton-on-Trent
Posts: 28
Thanks: 0
Trader Rating: 0
Tipo Jack has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Diesel starting / glow plug issues

Update - noticed after coming home with the engine warm if I turn the key again it's the same story - 20 seconds of pre heating and then pre heating continues after start up. Clearly whatever controls the glowplugs heat time is not working and it may well be related to the non-working temp gauge.

The saga continues...
__________________
Tipo 1.9TD SX
Tipo Jack is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 25-01-2007   #11
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: sunny Spain
Posts: 1,768
Thanks: 4
Trader Rating: 0
Cocoon Island Champion, Cupids Crush Champion, Crazy Pinball Champion, Pinball 7UP Champion, Rotamania Champion, Starsky n Hutch PinBall Champion
United Kingdom 
Re: Diesel starting / glow plug issues

Quote Originally Posted by Tipo Jack View Post
Update - noticed after coming home with the engine warm if I turn the key again it's the same story - 20 seconds of pre heating and then pre heating continues after start up. Clearly whatever controls the glowplugs heat time is not working and it may well be related to the non-working temp gauge.

The saga continues...
Change the temp sender ASAP. If you dont know what temp your engine is,it could be running into the red!! I suspect the glow plug unit is a bit faulty or tired. If the car starts and drives ok with good economy, so as long as you do the temp sensor, then leave it alone.

Andy.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

sumplug is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 25-10-2011   #12
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 8
Thanks: 0
Trader Rating: 0
Portugal 
Re: Diesel starting / glow plug issues

Hello
Have you solved the problem?
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

skoll is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Reply
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump
Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
(T) 105 JTD Glow Plug lamp hbcmike Multipla 4 10-08-2005 19:50
(T) dredded key fob issue and glow plug light! FRANTIC FRAN Marea 3 02-09-2004 21:55
(G) Fiat Uno 1.7 Diesel Glow Plug Light rippedoff Uno 0 03-03-2004 19:16
(T) Diesel Starting MarkH Marea 4 15-02-2004 03:15
(G) JTD100 ELX Glow Plug lamp problem pumping velvet Marea 1 05-11-2003 21:10