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Technical suspension advice needed

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Technical suspension advice needed

4troxoi

4troxoi

New member
Joined
Jan 15, 2006
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65
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Location
Athens/Greece
Hello to everyone...

I own a Fiat Tipo 1.4 i.e. in which I installed a few years ago a set of Bilstein classic (the black ones). A few months later I replaced the original springs with a set of H&R springs -4cm. Even though I never saw any sign of incompatibility, I know that Bilstein classic are not considered as good shock absorbers and that they are compatible with lower springs of a 3cm lowering at the most.
Moreover, I may say that even though I don' t like to run at highways (nor does the engine), I enjoy going fast at turnouts, so I would like to find a set of shock absorbers that would improve the car's handling, without making it tough as a rock. To be more precise, I' m not looking for a set of extreme sport shock absorbers, I' m rather looking for a more compatible pair of shock absorbers with my lowering springs that the Bilstein classic.
The car is fitted with 175-65/13 tyres, however I have bought recently a set of 14 inches alloy wheels and I'm going to fit on them 185-55/14 or 185-60/14 tyres.

I hope that with those changes the braking of the car will improve. For the time being I' m very disappointed of it as the wheels tend to block even at high speeds if I press the pedal hard. I assure you that blocked wheels at 100 km/h is extremely dangerous...

I' m waiting for your advice,

Thank you in advance :)
 
4troxoi said:
Hello to everyone...

I own a Fiat Tipo 1.4 i.e. in which I installed a few years ago a set of Bilstein classic (the black ones). A few months later I replaced the original springs with a set of H&R springs -4cm. Even though I never saw any sign of incompatibility, I know that Bilstein classic are not considered as good shock absorbers and that they are compatible with lower springs of a 3cm lowering at the most.
Moreover, I may say that even though I don' t like to run at highways (nor does the engine), I enjoy going fast at turnouts, so I would like to find a set of shock absorbers that would improve the car's handling, without making it tough as a rock. To be more precise, I' m not looking for a set of extreme sport shock absorbers, I' m rather looking for a more compatible pair of shock absorbers with my lowering springs that the Bilstein classic.
The car is fitted with 175-65/13 tyres, however I have bought recently a set of 14 inches alloy wheels and I'm going to fit on them 185-55/14 or 185-60/14 tyres.

I hope that with those changes the braking of the car will improve. For the time being I' m very disappointed of it as the wheels tend to block even at high speeds if I press the pedal hard. I assure you that blocked wheels at 100 km/h is extremely dangerous...

I' m waiting for your advice,

Thank you in advance :)
Click to expand...

Sorry, but you have done it all wrong. When buying a suspension kit, always buy a kit consisting of shockers and matching springs. This will make sure the rebound and resonance for your car is correct. Get one or both wrong and you will have a poor handling or bad ride car.
There are plenty of kits available including Bilstein ones.

Andy.
 
Ive had loads of different setups over the years, currently got avo adjustable coilovers on the mk2golf and spax on the unoturbo, very happy with both especialy as they were cheap but you'l love koni adjustables esp coilovers (not the springs to hard) and eibach (beautiful ride and hight) springs they complement each other perfectly, get your wallet out, i always sort out the suspension first on all my cars also check the rest of your suspension is in good order Ant!
 
ΚΑΛΗΣΠΕΡΑ,ΕΛΛΑΔΑΡΑ,ΤΟ ΕΧΩ ΨΑΞΕΙ ΑΡΚΕΤΑ ΤΟ ΘΕΜΑ ΤΟΥ ΣΤΗΣΙΜΑΤΟΣ,ΕΓΩ ΣΟΥ ΠΡΩΤΕΙΝΩ(ΜΕ ΤΟΥΣ ΚΑΡΟΔΡΟΜΟΥΣ ΠΟΥ ΕΧΟΥΜΕ) SACHS-PERFORMANCE(ΟΧΙ ΤΑ coilover) ΚΑΙ EIBACH!!! ΤΟ SET ΠΟΥ ΣΟΥ ΠΡΟΤΕΙΝΩ ΕΙΝΑΙ ΚΑΛΟ ΣΕ ΛΕΦΤΑ ΚΑΙ ΑΝΤΕΧΕΙ ΜΕΧΡΙ ΚΑΙ ΜΙΑ ΜΙΚΡΗ ΑΤΜΟΣΦΑΙΡΙΚΗ ΒΕΛΤΙΩΣΗ!!!
 
TipoMania said:
ΚΑΛΗΣΠΕΡΑ,ΕΛΛΑΔΑΡΑ,ΤΟ ΕΧΩ ΨΑΞΕΙ ΑΡΚΕΤΑ ΤΟ ΘΕΜΑ ΤΟΥ ΣΤΗΣΙΜΑΤΟΣ,ΕΓΩ ΣΟΥ ΠΡΩΤΕΙΝΩ(ΜΕ ΤΟΥΣ ΚΑΡΟΔΡΟΜΟΥΣ ΠΟΥ ΕΧΟΥΜΕ) SACHS-PERFORMANCE(ΟΧΙ ΤΑ coilover) ΚΑΙ EIBACH!!! ΤΟ SET ΠΟΥ ΣΟΥ ΠΡΟΤΕΙΝΩ ΕΙΝΑΙ ΚΑΛΟ ΣΕ ΛΕΦΤΑ ΚΑΙ ΑΝΤΕΧΕΙ ΜΕΧΡΙ ΚΑΙ ΜΙΑ ΜΙΚΡΗ ΑΤΜΟΣΦΑΙΡΙΚΗ ΒΕΛΤΙΩΣΗ!!!
Click to expand...

Que? :confused:
 
Hellcat said:
Que? :confused:
Click to expand...
You 're right to be confused as the answer was given in greek. I assume you don' t even see greek characters as I normally you won't have the required font activated. :D
TipoMania said:
ΚΑΛΗΣΠΕΡΑ,ΕΛΛΑΔΑΡΑ,ΤΟ ΕΧΩ ΨΑΞΕΙ ΑΡΚΕΤΑ ΤΟ ΘΕΜΑ ΤΟΥ ΣΤΗΣΙΜΑΤΟΣ,ΕΓΩ ΣΟΥ ΠΡΩΤΕΙΝΩ(ΜΕ ΤΟΥΣ ΚΑΡΟΔΡΟΜΟΥΣ ΠΟΥ ΕΧΟΥΜΕ) SACHS-PERFORMANCE(ΟΧΙ ΤΑ coilover) ΚΑΙ EIBACH!!! ΤΟ SET ΠΟΥ ΣΟΥ ΠΡΟΤΕΙΝΩ ΕΙΝΑΙ ΚΑΛΟ ΣΕ ΛΕΦΤΑ ΚΑΙ ΑΝΤΕΧΕΙ ΜΕΧΡΙ ΚΑΙ ΜΙΑ ΜΙΚΡΗ ΑΤΜΟΣΦΑΙΡΙΚΗ ΒΕΛΤΙΩΣΗ!!!
Click to expand...
means:

Hello, Greece, I 've looked the issue of suspension setting and I recommend you (with the bad quality roads we have) sachs performance (not the coilovers) with eibach. The set I recommend you is pennyworth and can even support a slight atmospheric improvement.

I hope I helped you :)
 
I finally installed the alloy rims I had bought to my car, fitted with Bridgestone Potenza RE 720 185/55-14 tyres. The tyres costed 320 euros, plus 30 euros for new bolts. I may say that it' s the first time I' m satisfied of the way the car handles not only at turns, but even when braking hard.
Now, I' m looking forward to the next change needed to be done, the shock absorbers. I haven' t decided yet what is the best choice for my car. As I have already said I want to keep the springs (H&R -4cm) and combinate them with more suitable shock absorbers. However, I don' t want to make the car extremely hard, as the days of "burning" have passed :D
Do you have any suggestions?
I was told I also need to change the front wishbones, therefore I will probably combine these two changes. Does anyone knows anything about these?
http://search.ebay.co.uk/fiat-tipo-wishbone_W0QQcatrefZC6QQfromZR10QQsbrftogZ1QQsofocusZbs
Are they compatible with a Fiat Tipo 1.4 i.e 1992 model?

Here is a photo of my car with the new alloys

 
Nice rims!!! About the fishbones who told you to change them? Unless you run over a hole in high speed so you damaged the fishbones. Anyway if you want to change them search for fishbone+sway bar from Bravo\Delta\Coupe. All the models are based on the Tipo's floor.
 
TipoMania said:
Nice rims!!! About the fishbones who told you to change them? Unless you run over a hole in high speed so you damaged the fishbones. Anyway if you want to change them search for fishbone+sway bar from Bravo\Delta\Coupe. All the models are based on the Tipo's floor.
Click to expand...

Sorry, they're not all compatible.

Mk1 (<1993) models have 15mm ball joint pins. Mk2 (1993>) have 17mm ball joint pins.

The rubber bushes wear out.. without hitting big holes. After maybe 4 years or 40,000 miles they will probably need changing. Replacing them is the next best thing you can do to to improve handling after new shocks and springs.
 
Hellcat said:
Mk1 (<1993) models have 15mm ball joint pins. Mk2 (1993>) have 17mm ball joint pins.
Click to expand...

This is not absolutely correct, it (probably) also depends on the engine version.
I have 17mm pins on my 1992 1.4 i.e. 160.A1.046.
It is worth to have the diameter checked before you give your money to the dealer, especially if you deal with the one who always knows best and does not have to check his database for the proper part number :mad:.
Generally, if the rubber gaiter on the ball joint is cracked and lets dirt enter the balljoint, change the wishbone assembly ASAP.
 
TipoMania said:
Nice rims!!! About the fishbones who told you to change them? Unless you run over a hole in high speed so you damaged the fishbones. Anyway if you want to change them search for fishbone+sway bar from Bravo\Delta\Coupe. All the models are based on the Tipo's floor.
Click to expand...
Hellcat said:
Sorry, they're not all compatible.
Mk1 (<1993) models have 15mm ball joint pins. Mk2 (1993>) have 17mm ball joint pins.
The rubber bushes wear out.. without hitting big holes. After maybe 4 years or 40,000 miles they will probably need changing. Replacing them is the next best thing you can do to to improve handling after new shocks and springs.
Click to expand...
(CZ)enda said:
This is not absolutely correct, it (probably) also depends on the engine version.
I have 17mm pins on my 1992 1.4 i.e. 160.A1.046.
It is worth to have the diameter checked before you give your money to the dealer, especially if you deal with the one who always knows best and does not have to check his database for the proper part number :mad:.
Generally, if the rubber gaiter on the ball joint is cracked and lets dirt enter the balljoint, change the wishbone assembly ASAP.
Click to expand...
Thank yoy very much for your answers.
First of all I have to inform you that the fishbones have never been changed after 15 years and ~72000 km.
I have been told that they need change by two different mechanics. One of them proved me that they need change by sawing me that they have lash (for those who don't know the word I mean that they have bigger runs than it should).
I have a Fiat Tipo 1.4 i.e. March 1992 model.
Can't I put the 17mm ball joint pins even if my car is equipped with 15mm ball joint pins? Won' t it become more stable? Of course I will ask that question to my mechanic, I would just like to know if someone had done this upgrade.
 
4troxoi said:
Can't I put the 17mm ball joint pins even if my car is equipped with 15mm ball joint pins? Won' t it become more stable? Of course I will ask that question to my mechanic, I would just like to know if someone had done this upgrade.
Click to expand...

They will not fit, you would have to redrill the holes in the hubs or change the whole hub assembly.
It would not be an upgrade, it would be a useless hassle ;)
 
Hi, you should check the diameter of your ball joints, but i have 11/1992 model i have 17mm!!!That's why i told you to seek between Delta\Bravo\coupe models and buy(if you can afford) the entire front system!!!
 
TipoMania said:
Hi, you should check the diameter of your ball joints, but i have 11/1992 model i have 17mm!!!That's why i told you to seek between Delta\Bravo\coupe models and buy(if you can afford) the entire front system!!!
Click to expand...
Unfortunately (if such an update worths anyway) I can' t afford it as I' m just a university student and I don' t want to involve my parents to my desire for "perfection". The car has received only standard changes + any changes caused by malfunction from the day my father bought it (he has been driving frequently changed company cars for many years now and as a result he doesn' t pay attention to the deteriorations caused by the time as he 's not used to them. At least that is his "excuse" when I announce him that the car needs repairs and for fun whistles lightly:p ) and now that I' m driving the car I' m trying to make it as new as I can.
I tend to look around and see how much does it cost a set of wishbones at different shops.
Today I noticed that my car is equipped with the wishbones sawn at the picture that follows:



and not with these:



The first one has more holes if that has any kind of importance. i would also like to know if the different pictures have anything to do with the difference between 15mm ball joint pins and 17mm ball joint pins, so if anyone has any idea just let me know.
 
Yesterday I replaced the wishbones and the shock absorbers.
The cost of the wishbones set was 90 € plus 20 € for the placement.
The cost of the shock absorbers was 280 € including placement and alignment.
Through many choices I selected KYB Excel-G at the front (black) και KYB Gas-A-Just (silver) at the rear. I was told that the combination of standard shocks at the front and stiffer shocks at the back provenly improves the way the car handles.
Having tested the car a bit at the road I may say that it leans a lot less when the car is turning, while in the same time remains comfortable and does bound at rubs. Changing the wishbones also means that some annoying sounds and vibrations from the front suspension have disappeared. I 'm very pleased of the result and I look forward to change the clutch so that the car totally revives.
 
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